Gathering Storm Embassy

[Maniac]

Originally posted by binTravkin
It's a plot to get them to research it (which can't be bad in any case).
Any reason to not mention it?

Because I'd prefer to b-line to other stuff first, meaning I'd prefer to coordinate research and exchange other techs with GS than Feudalism.

[binTravkin]

Your plan of getting Music/Philosophy/Theology first clearly rules out any suggesting that GS b-line towards those techs.
Then there's Engineering which you deemed useless, and GS would have even less intention to go for it since they don't have huge empire neither ability to build expensive wonders.
Then, Calendar - okay, GS might go for it, but they have much less use from it than we do (and we have much more use from it than from any future religion, Calendar being the next most useful tech we can research).

Compass, obviously is right out of GS interest, so is HBR.

So, essentially for GS there are only 2 techs we'd want them to research, without offending them and without crossing the being-first stuff you so favor - CS and Feudalism.

In other words - there is no other stuff.

[Maniac]

I'm not suggesting to go Music/Philosophy/Theology.

I'd suggest GS to research Civil Service.

[binTravkin]

With the possibility that we might get CS by lightbulbing a GM, it would be better that we research it.
Besides, it's a locker tech of a tree to very important techs - it is always safer to do it yourself than outsource.

[Kataphraktoi]

Stop dancing around the bush and be clear what you want Im getting a headache trying to figure out the meaning beyond last posts.

Because I'd prefer to b-line to other stuff first, meaning I'd prefer to coordinate research and exchange other techs with GS than Feudalism.

So we can get a monopoly on knights?

I don't have much experience in demo games, at what point do people gang up on you because you're going to win?

Judging from few DGs and many PBEM....just a bit AFTER you have won the game and are mopping up. Im not concerned about a socalled alliance of other continent

[N35t0r]

Originally posted by Kataphraktoi
Judging from few DGs and many PBEM....just a bit AFTER you have won the game and are mopping up. Im not concerned about a socalled alliance of other continent

That is unwise at best. two civs can beat the hell out of one civ in this game, as they effectively have half as much corruption. And corruption scales with inflation as well, so it will only get worse as time goes by. We need to be clear as to the situation on the other continent before we even think of attacking GS.

Also, on transferring Currency to them to speed CoL up. Building up trust between us both is a great way to streamline tech exchange and avoid possible problems with key techs.

[Maniac]

Originally posted by binTravkin
With the possibility that we might get CS by lightbulbing a GM, it would be better that we research it.

That's an uncertainty until we have a Great Person.

Originally posted by Kataphraktoi
Stop dancing around the bush and be clear what you want Im getting a headache trying to figure out the meaning beyond last posts.

I don't think Feudalism is important, so if we want to get faster to what is important IMO, we shouldn't ask GS to research something unimportant to us.

[Kataphraktoi]

That is unwise at best. two civs can beat the hell out of one civ in this game, as they effectively have half as much corruption. And corruption scales with inflation as well, so it will only get worse as time goes by. We need to be clear as to the situation on the other continent before we even think of attacking GS.

Im open to an actual example
Otherwise, nope.


What we previously talked about, was a later attack on GS after settling\developing our continent. I point out that according to the map generator, the other continent must be a bit smaller than ours-likely alot smaller-and after the civ3 dg's those teams 'over there' are not so friendly with each other. More reasonable conclusion-one civ conquers all their continent.

Not to mention our continent has 4 players to their 3. Thats a bonus in resources and good city spots right there. As we get courthouses and leverage our financial bonus, we can utilize more land anyway

[Kataphraktoi]

Cross post.

I don't think Feudalism is important, so if we want to get faster to what is important IMO, we shouldn't ask GS to research something unimportant to us.

On other hand, having GS research unimportant techs sounds like a decent way to keep them occupied. We dont want them to research good things, do we? I dont want them to arrive at CS and get funny ideas about macemen,bureaucracy and our research pact.

[Maniac]

I don't think GS would be so stupid to willingly research bad techs plus also accept bad techs in exchange (which means we would have to research bad techs to trade to them ). I also find it a bit strange people have long been complaining about the lack of cooperation and communication from GS, and now that we finally have some progress, that you're immediately thinking not about how to best work together in our common interest, but rather on how to best screw them over.

[Kataphraktoi]

I just dont see why GS should research CS when we could just pop it. if they research CS it could lead to more wasted beakers. what else will we ask them to research besides fuedalims anyway. They probably wont like compass

[Maniac]

Originally posted by Kataphraktoi
I just dont see why GS should research CS when we could just pop it.

Could pop it.
Plus GM has other uses, or another tech can be popped.

what else will we ask them to research besides fuedalims anyway. They probably wont like compass

Why not ask them, what they would consider researching?

[binTravkin]

Plus GM has other uses, or another tech can be popped.

Having CS is better than settling or trade mission as it would add 50%hammers and 50%commerce in capital.
There is no other 1000b+ tech in range for GM to pop.
Lightbulbing CS is our best shot if GM is born.


Edited message proposal:

--------------------------------
Greetings our friends!


We're happy to see you back in the diplomatic arena and thank you for your acceptance of the deal proposed by us.
We are also willing to cooperate closer in technological development so here's a list:

AC techs currently researchable:
- HorseBack Riding
- Music
- Drama
- Calendar
- Construction
- CoL
- Feudalism
- Theology
- Compass

We've just done researching Currency and we could transfer it to you right away in the hopes that it cuts a turn off your CoL research time on a basis that you transfer CoL to us immediately after it's research is finished. This exchange would be somehow resembling our much earlier dealings around Monotheism and us getting a religion.

After that we'd be interested in Calendar as it would allow us to use our newly acquired resources. Since you are researching CoL, we could be doing Calendar now and once done exchanging it for your Construction.
The next most important tech to us seem to be Civil Service.
At some point we'd want to also take Compass, but we recognize that as of now it is of little value to you, so probably it won't participate in cooperative tech plans so much.

Also, what are your plans after CoL?


Your friends @ Team AC
--------------------------------

[Kataphraktoi]

Why not ask them, what they would consider researching?

Never went against this, we just mentioned what was important

why not tell them we might have a gp coming that could pop CS and to avoid wastage we should coordinate this. if not, either of us can research CS

[Maniac]

Originally posted by binTravkin
Having CS is better than settling or trade mission as it would add 50%hammers and 50%commerce in capital.
There is no other 1000b+ tech in range for GM to pop.
Lightbulbing CS is our best shot if GM is born.

I'm saying that a GM isn't useless should GS research CS.

Edited message proposal:

Sounds good.

Originally posted by Kataphraktoi
why not tell them we might have a gp coming that could pop CS and to avoid wastage we should coordinate this. if not, either of us can research CS

Sounds good.
Btw, regarding it being dangerous to let GS research Maceman because it gives Maceman. Guilds-Feudalism gives Longbowmen and Knights. Sounds also rather dangerous to me, so I don't consider that a big consideration in tech cooperation with GS.