AC Diplomacy

[Hot Mustard]

Originally posted by Blake
Here's the deal:
Overflow BAAAAD. Overflow is not boosted by tech discounts, so wherever possible we should avoid overflow, including tweaking the slider to convert the overflow into gold which we then spend on the next tech.

Now whether or not to micro away the overflow depends largely on whether that gold can be completely converted into research before the next tech completes. I think our expenses are high enough to make that possible.

I love you Blake!

Ok, then what we should do then is:
Turn 72 @ 40% Switch to Polytheism (1 turn) - nets us +15 gold, which we can then use for the next several turns to run at 100%
Turn 73 @ 100% Polytheism complete with minimal (1 or 2) overflow, start Masonry (3 turns)
Turn 74 @ 100% Masonry
Turn 75 @ ??% Masonry
Turn 76 @ 100% Masonry complete with minimal overflow, resume Mathematics

I have not integrated Krill's discount-prolonging tactic here because I think doing the low-rate Polytheism first (getting us the gold to run at 100% subsequently) is stronger.

[notyoueither]

I'd like Masonry first. As I said, having it one turn earlier may well save the deal if ACen grows anxious. This also means forget switching from Masonry to Polytheism. Please?

Also, forget overflow if Blake is right.

We can do Masonry in 3 and then Polytheism in 1 without it, right? And we'll have cash to pour into Math at 100%.

[Krill]

We might have enough cash to do masonary in 3 turns without overflow or saving gold from polytheism first. I'm just not sure and you couldnt pay me enough to make a sim because I don't know how to moddle beakers from the ether.

The problem we have is that even with maximising bpt, we run out of gold due to maintenence. Next turn we will have to run at 90%, making 22 beakers. Turn 73 we can make 26. Turn 74 I think we can make 26 beakers again, but I'm not sure if 74 beakers is enough to get masonary, we might need 78 beakers (ie current 100% science slider for 3 turns). The overflow/gold saved from poly first is what allows us to ignore maintence for long enough to get the techs.

IF we did two turns of masonary first, we could figure out how many beakers we needed as overflow to get masonary the following turn and change the slider accordingly; run 50% instead of 40%, for example, and tech discounts be damned for those extra 2-4 beakers.

[Hot Mustard]

Originally posted by notyoueither
I'd like Masonry first. As I said, having it one turn earlier may well save the deal if ACen grows anxious. This also means forget switching from Masonry to Polytheism. Please?

Also, forget overflow if Blake is right.

We can do Masonry in 3 and then Polytheism in 1 without it, right? And we'll have cash to pour into Math at 100%.

By their own words, 6-7 turns is good, more is less good. So I don't see how delivering in 5 is going to make them anxious.

I did remove overflow with the above.

In a word, no. Polytheism first gives us the cash to do Masonry in 3 turns.

[notyoueither]

They could change their minds.

These messages have been exchanged with uncharactheristic rapidity. I suspect that nowhere near their entire team have had a say.

IF we can get Masonry in 3 and then Poly in 1, that is the way we should do it.

IF we can't get Masonry and Poly in 4 total without doing Poly first along the way, then OK.

I thought I read Krill earlier saying that Masonry could be done in 3, but I didn't analyse.

[notyoueither]

After thinking a bit, it is Masonry in 4 that is the critical bit.

I am imagining a situation where AC complete Alpha in 4... more of their team have had a chance to have a say... and they decide to do Masonry themselves... We need to be able to say that it is done, and here's Poly next turn. We need that to keep the very generous terms they are offering (a free 150 beakers).

Meanwhile, we save some gold for later defecit spending on Math and Construction. Can we not do Masonry in 4 with a fair bit of gold racked up?

Edit: I just looked at the save. We can get Masonry in 4 with +4gpt (and growth). Then Poly in 1 with another 14gpt.

That gives us 30 gold to put into defecit spending on Math and Construction (100% sci slider this turn shortens Math by a turn and we gain back the turn lost).

What should we do if we want to count our gold?

[Blake]

These messages have been exchanged with uncharactheristic rapidity. I suspect that nowhere near their entire team have had a say.

There might also be overwhelming consensus.

[Krill]

Overwhelming concensus is a very rare thing in demogames.

[Hot Mustard]

Originally posted by notyoueither
After thinking a bit, it is Masonry in 4 that is the critical bit.

I am imagining a situation where AC complete Alpha in 4... more of their team have had a chance to have a say... and they decide to do Masonry themselves... We need to be able to say that it is done, and here's Poly next turn. We need that to keep the very generous terms they are offering (a free 150 beakers).

Meanwhile, we save some gold for later defecit spending on Math and Construction. Can we not do Masonry in 4 with a fair bit of gold racked up?

Edit: I just looked at the save. We can get Masonry in 4 with +4gpt (and growth). Then Poly in 1 with another 14gpt.

That gives us 30 gold to put into defecit spending on Math and Construction (100% sci slider this turn shortens Math by a turn and we gain back the turn lost).

What should we do if we want to count our gold?

With all due respect nye, what are you smoking?

I just laid out that doing Poly first nets us both in 4 turns, with the actual trade completed in 5 due to game mechanics. If AC completes Alpha in 4 then we say, "we're finished Poly and Masonry - let's trade." Doing as you suggest we would have to say, "we're done Masonry and will finish Poly next turn."

As for gold, doing Poly first nets us +15 gold. Running at 100% is -2gpt - that is 7 turns of 100%. 3 turns for Masonry, and the other 4 finish Mathematics. Also, if we follow Blake's advice on minimizing overflow, we might be able to squeeze some gold out of the last turn of Masonry and Mathematics by reducing the slider a bit. Lastly, by the time we've used up the Poly (and Masonry, and Mathematics) gold, we'll have more gold due to growth, with additional cottages following shortly after.

[Blake]

Originally posted by Krill
Overwhelming concensus is a very rare thing in demogames.

Not really. You probably just tend to notice more the things people don't agree on.

Besides AC have said that they pretty much have their near future all planned out. They have a plan. They aren't working this stuff out on the fly, so as long as our actions fit within their plan they can respond quickly.

A plan basically is overwhelming consensus.

Like I imagine AC are probably thinking (and have been thinking for a while)
"Yep, if GS are willing to co-operate then we should definitely make a run for Monotheism"

And then along comes GS eager to co-operate.
So they have nothing to lose by moving the plans forward as quickly as possible, in fact they appear eager to do exactly that (much as we are pretty eager to co-operate with them, damn love fest )

We would have caused them pause if we refused to co-operate, but as long as we are part of their plan I imagine that things are quite straightforward for AC.

[notyoueither]

Originally posted by Hot Mustard


With all due respect nye, what are you smoking?

I just laid out that doing Poly first nets us both in 4 turns, with the actual trade completed in 5 due to game mechanics. If AC completes Alpha in 4 then we say, "we're finished Poly and Masonry - let's trade." Doing as you suggest we would have to say, "we're done Masonry and will finish Poly next turn."

As for gold, doing Poly first nets us +15 gold. Running at 100% is -2gpt - that is 7 turns of 100%. 3 turns for Masonry, and the other 4 finish Mathematics. Also, if we follow Blake's advice on minimizing overflow, we might be able to squeeze some gold out of the last turn of Masonry and Mathematics by reducing the slider a bit. Lastly, by the time we've used up the Poly (and Masonry, and Mathematics) gold, we'll have more gold due to growth, with additional cottages following shortly after.

Yeesh, I missed your gold caluculations. OK, go for it.

I smoke Player's filter regular, btw.

[Hot Mustard]

Originally posted by notyoueither
I smoke Player's filter regular, btw.

Oh no, sorry to hear that.

Any other cancer-rod tokers on the team that we should be aware of?

[notyoueither]

Originally posted by Hot Mustard


Oh no, sorry to hear that.

Don't be sorry for me. I'm an old fart and I'm happy to live my life the way I want and enjoy the run as long as it lasts.

Be sorry for the people who take up smoking today or tomorrow, and are able to buy a legal product that the government is certain will cause them harm.

It would be so simple. Make it illegal to manufacture, import, or sell tobacco products. Even old farts like me would quit and no one else would ever take it up.

[notyoueither]

Sent to AC

We have examined the situation and we can accommodate your need for Poly and Masonry ASAP. We will be able to be within your 9 turn timeline, and most likely inside of 7.

I hope we may consider the tech trade a deal then.

Regards
nye

PS. Have you heard from Banana regarding the 3 way treaty? We have not.

[Hot Mustard]

Originally emailed by Sheng-Ji Yang
Yes, it's a deal then:

GS transfers Polytheism and Masonry to AC ASAP recieving 75 beaker credit base and additional 75 beaker credit if AC succeeds to found Judaism.

We haven't heard from the Banana for quite a time (a month) either.

Your friends @AC