Team Sarantium Diplomacy

[UnOrthOdOx]

Team Mercenary.

Greetings! Interesting times we live in, eh. (Trying to protect my Canadian heritage while living here in Florida.)

To start with, thank you for your recent frank and straightforward message.

The settlement proposal and border arrangement, as proposed by Team Mercenary is fine with us. Thank you for your efforts in looking to a solution that works for both of us. We are currently debating whether we settle the northern (coastal) or southern (gem) site first - as our settler is essentially midway between the two.

As to the stance of Team Mercenary, and alliances, and agreements and such, we understand and respect your position. Thank you for clarifying things in this regard.

As to your conflict with the wHorde, we will continue to assist you with as much information as we have regarding their units and movement.

Regarding our tech agreement, we are interested in extending it out past Alphabet. More specifically, we would like to discuss an arrangment that involves HBR, machinery, mathematics, contsruction and optics. We trust this will fit with your plans as well. To be blunt, we are looking to deny the Horde any advantage tech wise that could be used against either Team Mercenary or Sarantium.

We are pleased that we have moved past the recent 'misunderstandings', and indeed look forward to future dealings with Team Mercenary.

Sincere regards, Beta.

I'm not going to have time to analyze that tech situation till Monday. I think we need to make it clear we're going for Metal Casting next. Other than that, there's no mention of sailing which must be a priority for us, I gotta sit down with the tech tree and look at the others.

[Kloreep]

I think they know we're going Metal Casting next? Which is required for Machinery anyway. Maybe we weren't sure last we talked to them though, can't remember. Anyhow, yeah, tech needs some thought - in the short term, though, I think both teams have their tasks set out ahead of them (us Metal Casting, them Writing/Alph)

[UnOrthOdOx]

Yeah, we just need to prioritize sailing and masonry in there somewhere.

[UnOrthOdOx]

SirUlias@AOL.com says:
Iron map sent to you just now
Tatu says:
thanks very much
Tatu says:
did you get the reply from Beta via PM?
SirUlias@AOL.com says:
Yes and responded with a quickie. I can't look at the techs till Monday, though.
Tatu says:
ok, good
SirUlias@AOL.com says:
I think we need to prioritize a few things other than that list, though.
SirUlias@AOL.com says:
Like masonry to hook up our stone, maybe 1-2 others, but other than that I expect us to agree to work something out.
Tatu says:
good
Tatu says:
lets think about it later
SirUlias@AOL.com says:
You guys settling the coast first, I take it?
Tatu says:
yeah.. a little bit safer if things heat up between us and the horde
SirUlias@AOL.com says:
And easier to get productive quicker.
Tatu says:
yep..
SirUlias@AOL.com says:
How far out are we on tech trades?
Tatu says:
Let me tell some info about the latest Hordian moves
SirUlias@AOL.com says:
How many turns till possible I mean
Tatu says:
let me check
Tatu says:
as of now.. it will be 18 till alphabet, but it will be considerable shorter due to the new city and growth in older cities
Tatu says:
so you are researching masonry now?
SirUlias@AOL.com says:
Especially if you hook the gold up.
SirUlias@AOL.com says:
We will be doing Metal Casting next, gold being our only happy and all.
Tatu says:
ah right
SirUlias@AOL.com says:
Eventually gems too, made that kinda a no brainer.
Tatu says:
lets calculate the beakers when the alpha is almost ready
SirUlias@AOL.com says:
Gah. Beaker count!!!!
SirUlias@AOL.com says:
/me flees
Tatu says:

Tatu says:
about the horde
Tatu says:
they have not built the new city yet
SirUlias@AOL.com says:
awwww. I shed a tear...
Tatu says:
they were probably intimitated by the barb warrior that killed your scout
Tatu says:
it was wounded and it attacked the hordian archer
Tatu says:
and died
Tatu says:

SirUlias@AOL.com says:
too bad we're not on raging.
Tatu says:
they are at the horses down south now and they'll probably settle next turn
Tatu says:
the settler is with a scout and one archer
Tatu says:
I see you got some iron also good for you
SirUlias@AOL.com says:
Alrighty, thanks for the info. Gotta go prepare my lesson now.
Tatu says:
ok
Tatu says:
good day

[UnOrthOdOx]

Hi UnO and Team Merc!

Here is the intel we have after our last move.

1. The Horde archer is 7 of the wheat resource tile

2. There is a Horde scout is 9 of the piggies.

(Those resource references being 1 and 3 respectively from the southern mountain tile of the two-tile mountain range. Shall we call it the South Central Range?)

3. There is another scout near their horses, probably heading N/NE.

4. The Horde have settled on the southern horse resource; the city being Karakorum. We presume they did this to be able to produce Keshiks without needing a worker, (and to protect the resource), but it is going to take them awhile to produce one. Also, there is an archer in the new city.

5. Our intelligence agancy think they are currently working on a worker or another settler - but cannot confirm.

Hope this helps.

Regarding iron - many thanks for the information regarding the iron supply. This was indeed good news.

btw - any thoughts on the longer term tech research and trading agreement - or would you like something more specific in terms of a proposal?

Regards...Beta.

[UnOrthOdOx]

Greetings Team Sarantium,

We thank you for the intel.

I have a lot to relay and little time, so forgive any shortness in my response here.

Our roads completed at the end of the last turn, and we are prepared to send you copper next turn. Before this can happen, however, we have always agreed to work out the price of this "later". Well, that time is at hand.

Keep in mind this is just negotiation. We need both a length and a $. 20 turns seems reasonable for length. The initial tech trading should occur by that time and you may even be able to hook up Iron by the end of this duration. We would of course be happy to renew such a trade at the end.

We propose a price of 50 tech points for these 20 turns. This works out to 2.5 points per turn for a strategic resource.

What is the status of Sarantium Research, and what are Sarantium's thought on the possibility of an Open Borders agreement once Sarantium has Writing?

Team Mercenary looks forward to future tech trading, but the specifics need to be worked out. Team Mercenary values Masonry, for instance, that we may get the most out of existing resources. Sailing is one we are strongly considering as well, as Team Mercenary values contacts as soon as is possible. Other than that, the plan put forward by Sarantium looks good. We would prefer, however, to get the specifics down (tech points and all :shudder: ) of both the existing and future tech trades prior to agreeing to such a thing.

-UnOrthOdOx
Team Mercenary Representative.

[UnOrthOdOx]

Beta,

Just so we're all on the same page, as I have it:

Sarantium agrees to supply Team Mercenary:

Writing (171)
Alpha (429)
Mysticism (71)
Archery (85)
Meditation (114)

TOTAL:870

In return, Team Mercenary supplies to Team Sarantium:

Agriculture (85)
Iron Working (286)
Metal Casting (643)

Subtotal: 914

Copper for: (length and cost pending)

Anything I missed?

[polarnomad]

Since the research values of the techs we are exchanging add up to about the same amount, why are we supplying Sarantium with copper?

[UnOrthOdOx]

So they wouldn't need to hook up potential Iron, thus enabling the Ironworking trade. They were going to research ironworking next instead of Writing/Alpha prior to our agreeing to supply copper ASAP. Without Ironworking, we'ld be well in debt on the trades and many turns out from being able to trade at all. It's more efficient for both teams this way, and speeds both our research.

[polarnomad]

Gotcha.

[UnOrthOdOx]

UnO and Team Merc

Thanks for your recent reply.

Regarding the price of copper, we are Ok with 2.5 credits per turn, but see us only needing copper for 10 turns, starting 6 turns from now. That would amount to 25 tech credits. Trust this is Ok by you as well.

As of the end of last turn, we are 16 turns from completing alphabet, and hence our proposal on the length of the copper deal.

I can also confirm that we are on the same sheet regarding the tech agreement. The numbers you provided in your second letter are what we had agreed to earlier. Sarantium will be at 870 research credits - and Team Mercenary at 914 plus 25 for the copper, equals 939.

We agree that we should firm up the next phase of the tech agreement. We will need to confirm as to who researches what. Any proposals? We will do some thinking at our end as well.

As to the open borders agreement, we see the merits in such a deal from a trading and commerce perspective. However, we feel that both our nations would likely want to maintain sovereignty over their own territories. Therefore, we are proposing that we adopt an open borders agreement, on the understanding that neither team will violate the others' territory unless granted prior permission as to specific unit moves.

And finally - here is the latest from our intelligence agency after our last move:

1. 1st of the 3 Horde Scouts (Captain Jibbs - Woodsman 1) is at 2-2-1-1 from your gold.
2. 2nd of the 3 Horde Scouts is at 3-3-6 from your units.
3. 3rd of the 3 Horde Scouts, along with a 2 Promotion Archer (Drill 1 & 2) are in the Horse City.
4. Looks like the Horde just built a new Archer in their Capitol (makes 4 total).

Trust this helps, and looking forward to hearing from you.

Salutations, Beta

Anyone opposed to such an "open borders in game but don't come in here" agreement? We'll get religion sooner or later this way. With all the positives and negatives that come with that.

PERSONALLY, I think we want religion. Yes they can spy, but they also will get more money which they hopefully turn around and hire us with. We get happy and culture, but also more gold from trade routes.

After the copper agreement, the tech point tally comes to:

Sarantium agrees to supply Team Mercenary:

Writing (171)
Alpha (429)
Mysticism (71)
Archery (85)
Meditation (114)

TOTAL:870

In return, Team Mercenary supplies to Team Sarantium:

Agriculture (85)
Iron Working (286)
Metal Casting (643)
Copper for 10 turns (25)

Subtotal: 939

Difference of 69 points agreed to be made up later.

They still haven't seemed to graps that if they just asked for that copper for longer periods whether they needed it or not, we could never attack them.

Ah well.

[UnOrthOdOx]

Greetings Beta, Sarantium,

Sorry for the delay, been a bit busy IRL.

Copper for 10 is fine. Can I get a date when you want it to start, just to be absolutely clear.

The Tech Deal, then, as it shall appear in the public Merc thread (once we're allowed):

Contract # 0001
"Real knowledge is to know the extent of one's ignorance." -Confucius
Type: Tech Trade
Team: Sarantium
Details:
Sarantium agrees to supply Team Mercenary:

Writing (171)
Alpha (429)
Mysticism (71)
Archery (85)
Meditation (114)
69 Tech points to be paid in the future when possible

TOTAL:939

In return, Team Mercenary supplies to Team Sarantium:

Agriculture (85)
Iron Working (286)
Metal Casting (643)
Copper for 10 turns (25)

Total: 939

Completed:

As for next phase of tech trades, we're still discussing that (ie, I'm waiting for the builderers to speak). I know we want Masonry to get the most out of Fort Sierra, and we're heavily considering Sailing to start exploration. But, with us doing Metal Casting, I believe it won't finish till a few turns after you finish Alpha, thus we're in a better position to research that lower tech line than you would be. I'll try to crunch some number sometime this week.

Proposal for the Open Borders in official-speak-type- language:
Team Sarantium and Team Mercenary agree to exhange an Open Border Agreement for 20 turns for the express purposes of increasing trade between the teams. Both teams agree no units shall actually enter the other's border without prior written consent. This agreement may be extended at the end of this 20 turn duration if both teams agree to do so.

Violation of any other deals by either team will constitute a violation of this agreement as well.

UnOrthOdOx
Team Mercenary Representative.

[UnOrthOdOx]

Greetings UnO and Team Merc

Thanks for your recent message. To follow-up:

Please provide copper on turn 1000 BC. We may request it sooner. Many thanks.

There has been some discussion as to whether your public posting (when you are able to do it) violates our earlier agreement regarding not revealing our respective tech status. On the other hand, we recognize that by the time you are able to post it, it may not mean a whole lot. Any thoughts?

The Open Border agreement and wording you provided sounds good to us. To confirm:

Team Sarantium and Team Mercenary agree to exhange an Open Border Agreement for 20 turns for the express purposes of increasing trade between the teams. Both teams agree no units shall actually enter the other's border without prior written consent. This agreement may be extended at the end of this 20 turn duration if both teams agree to do so.

Violation of any other deals by either team will constitute a violation of this agreement as well.

Regarding the next phase of the tech trade agreement, we would like to propose:

Team Mercenary supplies:
Masonry 114
Sailing 143
and previous credit of 69
TOTAL 326

Sarantium supplies:
Horse Back Riding 357
IW research credit 12 (see below)
TOTAL 369

It has been brought to my attention that Sarantium invested one turn of research into IW before the copper and tech deal was finalized. That represents 23 tech points, and we are asking if you would credit us with half the effort (12 points).

You would owe us 43 tech points, which would carry over to a future deal. We would also ask that you research and send masonry prior to sailing.

We are also open to proposals for a third phase of the tech deal after this.

On the intel front, not much change from previous. The Horde's horse city (Karakorum), has two units in it. Horde scouts in same/similar locations.

Anything else we can help with, please let us know.

Regards, Beta

[UnOrthOdOx]

Hi UnO.

Could team Merc please ensure that the "trade" of copper is completed by the time we, Sarantium, play our turn 75: 1040BC turn. There is a chance we might request it sooner, but if that is the case, we will let you know. Many thanks.

We just finished our turn, and not much new intel to add. I expect you can see as much as we can.

Good luck with your 'endeavours'!

And any word on the next round of tech trades?

Cheers! Beta

[UnOrthOdOx]

Greetings Sarantium,

Sorry for my delay in answering, we're having pregnancy problems at home, and frankly Civ isn't the first thing on my mind.

As I understand it, we need to send copper this next turn, correct?

The last tech proposal from you is thus:

Team Mercenary supplies:
Masonry 114
Sailing 143
and previous credit of 69
TOTAL 326

Sarantium supplies:
Horse Back Riding 357
IW research credit 12 (see below)
TOTAL 369

I haven't heard anything from the builders, so I'm just going to get this done.

Team Mercenary can agree to this plan with one provision:

Currently the Horde owes us 320 gold, and reclaimation of that is our objective in the current conflict. According to our standard pricing, 1 gold = 1 tech point. Should the Horde agree to fork over HBR as payment, we assume that's what they're working on, we would like to negotiate and get you guys researching something else, we'll supply you HBR as soon as we get it for an IOU (we wouldn't accept a no trade clause for this settlement) and credit you 100% of the tech points you had invested in HBR.

Lastly, I present the Horde Capitol Panoramic in repayment for all the wonderfull intel you have shared:

http://www.apolyton.net/upload/view/20498_1080bc1.jpeg

1 archer is double city defense
1 with drill
2 unpromoted

In the coming turns some of those roads will likely fall into disrepair.

UnOrthOdOx
Team Merc Representative

If I fall off the face of the earth for a few days without word, just assume we're having a baby (way early) and I'll be back asap.