Team Sarantium Diplomacy

[Kloreep]

Here's my proposal to send back. I'll send it off soon if I don't hear objections. (Maybe even U.S. tonight, which is only a few hours from starting, as I don't think this deviates from the response I already proposed.)

Salutations to the Empire of Sarantium. We are always happy to answer inquiries about our services, although I am afraid what we can do at the moment is somewhat limited by the type of payment at this early juncture.

Types of contracts: I think the best way to sum it up would be, anything we _could_ do with our units, you can hire us to go ahead and _do_. Targetting civ's cities, improvements, even units... patrolling for barbarians around that territory you haven't gotten the settler to yet... like I said, anything we can do with our units can be done for you. For the right price, that is. Which brings me to the cost. No specific cost formula for units or tasks has been set. Currently, we can only accept payment in units. We acknowledge this could present problems since you would want to be hiring additional units in the first place... unfortunately, units are the only payment viable thus far. If you are interested in such a payment-in-units contract, we are always open to proposals. If not, we feel certain we will eventually be able to accept sharable knowledge as payment, perhaps even a more universal form of exchange that has yet to be discovered. As for discounts, we have no set system like "free archer if you get 6 punches on your Favored Merc Customer card." You're always free to negotiate on price, but there is nothing we can guarantee you.

Thanks for your interest. Always feel free to contact us; all negotiations are confidential, and signed contracts can be too for reasonable fees.

-Kloreep of the Mercenary Team

[rush]

Payment by cash can only be accepted when either party has acquired the knowledge of Currency.

Payment by knowledge can only be accepted when either party has acquired the knowledge of Alphabet.

This is the in-game rule. Do you want to highlight this to them ?

[Kloreep]

I could add the specific techs in, but I figured they knew that and hence went for a bit more of a roleplay approach.

[Kloreep]

Sent message to Sarantium.

[polarnomad]

BTW, the PS at the bottom of Flamer(fin)'s message means: "May your black sausage be especially tasty!"

It's a joke since black blood sausage is a specialty of Tampere (where I live). I guess I should have translated that sooner...

[Kloreep]

Dear Mercenaries,

As you know our continent is, at least for us, but without doubt for you too, an exciting one with the three teams of the Horde, you and us on it. The game has started just yet and we are already spottings some Horde units. Have you seen any Horde units thus far? My team is interested to explore the the possibilities of making use of the services of your team. Perhaps we can also make some agreements.

During the first contacts we were told that renting units would be possible by moving a unit of us into your territory and gaining one of your units back for it. However, we are not really interested in moving units around that can't be used effectively for other purposes, with, in effect, little benefit. We were wondering if we can rent or purchase now and pay later in whatever way that seems acceptable later on, like techs or gold.

Perhaps we can also agree to some kind of a set price for the rent or purchase of units used for homeland security? We are interested in renting or purchasing archers and spearmen.

Can we determine specific traits for the units we want to rent or purchase?

We would like you to do us some exploring for us and send us the screenshots if you see interesting or remarkable things. If screenshot trading is not allowed, you can perhaps describe what you see. We would like to be able to give you some directions from time to time as where to explore. We have to negotiate a bit on how we pay for this as you guys would also benefit from this though the exploration done.

Is it possible for UnO to meet me in chat to discuss things like these?

By the way: how are your relations with the Horde? Ours are allright and peaceful, however, "whosoever desires peace, prepares for war".

I hope we can do some business soon.


Regards,

Aidun

[Kloreep]

We really really shouldn't be renting out units right now. Maybe in the future we could consider taking out contracts for future payment (though it's a fair bit of trust to expect them to pay despite whatever may have changed) but for now, we're at our limit trying to scrape together settlers & workers for expansion + the military to protect them. We could perhaps discuss an exploration deal with our scout once we're done scouting Sarantium (we gain the information too, after all) but that's really the only thing I would be okay with us doing at this early point.

Other points merit comment, but I think renting policy and whether we change it is the one urgent matter.

[polarnomad]

Perhaps they might care to exchange an axeman for a Sarantium settler... Somehow I don't think they'll like that offer.

Otherwise, I agree that we are strectched thin as it is, and should concentrate on our own expansion and development at this juncture.

[rush]

We should politely decline, by saying that we only accept cash. And we are not allowed to trade ingame using gold until one party has currency.

But the real reason is, why would us sacriface our production now to receive some future gold. It does not make sense at all. We ought to be building Settler, Workers and units to protect the Settler and Workers.

Not sure why Aidun is writing this instead of con. Aidun likes to write long flowery correspondence. If he is the ambassador to us, we need to find someone who enjoys writting literature to correspond to him. Not me though.

[UnOrthOdOx]

Yeah, I'll take care of it in chat and see if they will give us the direction of Team Horde.

While an axeman for a settler is certainly out of the question as it's not fair. An equal hammer trade may not be.

They most likely lack copper, and I would imagine (guessing numbers here) 3-4 axes/spearman for a settler might be something they would go for.

Also of note, they asked for SPEARMEN. They may have seen Horde ponies.

[Cptn Fancypants]

Does Sarantium know or assume that we have copper?

Has Sarantium seen our copper mine? They haven't seen a bronze unit, no?

Can anyone interpret power graphs, etc. to determine the likelihood that The Horde has connected horses?

Note that Sarantium asked for both archers and spearmen. That sounds like base city defense against any foreseeable Horde attacker, whether horse or axe. By not asking for axes, we might assume that they have no taste for conquest in the near future and that they are playing a fundamentally conservative game.

[UnOrthOdOx]

They should know or at least have a very good idea we researched Bronze Working by an analysis of the power graph. They should also know we built EITHER an archer or a Spear as they have the same value.

I don't know about connected horses. Don't think that shows much if at all on the graphs.

What we can tell is the horde is #1, we are #2 in terms of troop numbers. Looking at the difference it is likely they built a barracks, or a couple archers/chariots. Possibly a lucky hut gave them bronzeworking.

[UnOrthOdOx]

So 9 AM GMT. That makes it 3 AM to me. I can probably swing that. Forgive me if I'm a minute or two late I'll be just waking up. We got some folks on the team that may want to sit in for a chat at that time too. I'll go arrange it.

9 AM GMT, Poly IRC chat, room name #Merc, password sheep.

See you then
- UnOrthOdOx

Anyone is welcome to join.

[UnOrthOdOx]

Session Start: Wed Jul 19 03:38:22 2006
Session Ident: #Merc
[03:38] * Logging #Merc to 'logs\#Merc.apolyton.log'
[03:38] [UnOrthOdOx] There is is.
[03:38] [UnOrthOdOx] Command is /log on
[03:39] [Aidun_making_brunch] works
[03:40] [Aidun_making_brunch] So did you make any skulls lately?
[03:40] [UnOrthOdOx] Constantly. I have half a dozen now.
[03:40] [UnOrthOdOx] I need to go after more plaster now, though.
[03:40] [Aidun_making_brunch] six, very nice
[03:41] [Aidun_making_brunch] perhaps you've seen in my Armory thread that i've bough some polystyrene
[03:41] [Aidun_making_brunch] Today I plan on getting the glue
[03:42] [UnOrthOdOx] That's similar to fiberglass, isn't it?
[03:42] [Aidun_making_brunch] Then maybe with some luck I can glue the sheets together before the short holiday next week
[03:42] [Aidun_making_brunch] might be.
[03:43] [UnOrthOdOx] Yeah, I think it's roughly the same stuff I was recommending.
[03:43] [Aidun_making_brunch] It is very similer to polyurethane, especially the kind of polystyrene I have
[03:44] [Aidun_making_brunch] My brother, who was too busy to help be before, also advised me this after when I told him of what you GodKing and you had told me.
[03:45] [UnOrthOdOx] Well, shall we get to business? I have a wee bit I need to prepare prior to work today, so only have about an hour.
[03:46] [Aidun_making_brunch] fine
[03:46] [Aidun_making_brunch] I have less time, the gym has been posponed, but it's soon nontheless
[03:47] [UnOrthOdOx] Ok. You were asking if we've seen horde units and inquiring on our relation with them.
[03:47] [Aidun_making_brunch] Yes, just wondering
[03:47] [UnOrthOdOx] The only units we've seen to date are scouts.
[03:48] [UnOrthOdOx] Our relations are the same as with all teams: Neutral.
[03:48] [UnOrthOdOx] I assume by your comments you guys have actually seen military units?
[03:48] [Aidun_making_brunch] Yes one and our intelligence tells they have several more
[03:49] [UnOrthOdOx] Can you say of what kind it was?
[03:49] [Aidun_making_brunch] Like with all conversations with the Merc team this is confidential, even after deal are made public ok?
[03:50] [UnOrthOdOx] Discussions are never disclosed. If a deal is made, and you want your name kept out, a small fee will be required.
[03:51] [Aidun_making_brunch] Good. I suppose I can tell it. It was an archer. Does that sound familiar to you?
[03:51] [UnOrthOdOx] familiar? Not really. It makes sense given the power graphs though.
[03:52] [Aidun_making_brunch] We know of every unit they have... E_T
[03:53] [Aidun_making_brunch] and Flamer mostly
[03:54] [UnOrthOdOx] yeah, once you fill in a few holes it's easy to make reasonable predictions on what everyone has.
[03:55] [Aidun_making_brunch] We are not yet sure on their intentions but they're pumping archers a wee bit fast
[03:56] [UnOrthOdOx] I see.
[03:57] [UnOrthOdOx] This goes back to the scouting issue in your email, but we would be interested in knowing where their border is.
[03:57] [UnOrthOdOx] We would like to scout it out, and would be willing to share some of that info with you.
[03:58] [UnOrthOdOx] Screenshots were deemed allowed.
[03:58] [UnOrthOdOx] I propose we each make a screenshot of our known area with resources turned off, culture turned on.
[03:59] [UnOrthOdOx] This gives us both a good idea of the lay of the land, but does not compromise any security people might be worried about.
[03:59] [Aidun_making_brunch] I can't yet agree to that, while I'm a minister, such a decision is outside my jurisdiction.
[04:00] [UnOrthOdOx] Right, I doubt we'll be agreeing to anything in this chat, just things to take back to the team.
[04:00] [Aidun_making_brunch] But I like the proposal though. There is but one point
[04:01] [Aidun_making_brunch] We don't want to see our map info shared with others
[04:02] [UnOrthOdOx] We can agree not to share any screenshots received in return for the same consideration with our screenshots.
[04:02] [Aidun_making_brunch] Especially not with the Horde on our doorstep
[04:02] [Aidun_making_brunch] That's acceptable
[04:03] [Aidun_making_brunch] when shall we start exchanging these screenshots?
[04:03] [UnOrthOdOx] Next turn?
[04:04] [Aidun_making_brunch] Possible, and afterwards? every x turns, or just upon request?
[04:05] [UnOrthOdOx] Probably an on request situation. No need to exchange when we haven't uncovered anything.
[04:06] [Aidun_making_brunch] That means every time we request a screenshot we can have one and the same for you?
[04:07] [UnOrthOdOx] I can't agree to that here. I'ld say lets approach each one seperately for now, but I would expect us to be fairly willing to trade often.
[04:07] * Aidun_making_brunch has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[04:08] * Aidun_making_brunch has joined #Merc
[04:08] [Aidun_making_brunch] did I miss something?
[04:09] [Aidun_making_brunch] My ISP is unreliable and my connection was down for a moment
[04:09] [UnOrthOdOx] I can't agree to that here, I'ld say let's approach each one seperatley for now, but I would expect us to be fairly willing to trade often.
[04:10] [Aidun_making_brunch] I'll just take it back and see what the others say of it. I think we're but close to a deal
[04:10] [UnOrthOdOx] agreed.
[04:11] [UnOrthOdOx] Alright, the last thing you had mentioned was unit renting/trading.
[04:11] [Aidun_making_brunch] I was just about to mention it
[04:12] [UnOrthOdOx] We have determined offering units now for payment some time in the future is simply not profitable for us.
[04:12] [Aidun_making_brunch] But neither is moving around units
[04:12] [UnOrthOdOx] Team Sarantium has many members who were most vocal against Team merc even playing.
[04:13] [UnOrthOdOx] Among the many 'problems' with Team Merc was the possibility of ourselves gifting units that were just turned around and used against Team Merc.
[04:13] [UnOrthOdOx] I can say, gifting of units this early is not going to happen without an equal hammer trade in units in return.
[04:14] [Aidun_making_brunch] That is because of your security?
[04:14] [UnOrthOdOx] Yes. It's not that we don't trust you. We just don't trust anyone.
[04:15] [UnOrthOdOx] Now renting units at this time has many problems.
[04:15] [UnOrthOdOx] Payment cannot be guaranteed most prominent among them.
[04:15] [Aidun_making_brunch] We might sign a pact not to attack you, onesided, as long as we can profit from that
[04:16] [UnOrthOdOx] Well, Aidun, some people would happily sign such a pact just to turn around and break it if it meant a free city or two.
[04:17] [UnOrthOdOx] You will find words only mean as much as the gold backing them to team Merc.
[04:17] [Aidun_making_brunch] True, but then we needthe troops to conquer one of your cities
[04:17] [UnOrthOdOx] Which is why we are not keen on being the ones to supply you with those needed troops.
[04:18] [UnOrthOdOx] Giving you control of units, gifting them, is not going to happen this early. Period.
[04:18] [UnOrthOdOx] Back to renting, Team Merc maintaining control:
[04:19] [UnOrthOdOx] If these were to be used in defense as you claim, there is some problems with this. Most notably, we cannot enter your territory without declaring war.
[04:19] [UnOrthOdOx] Of course there is also the matter of we would not be paid for our services for some time.
[04:19] [Aidun_making_brunch] Yes
[04:19] [UnOrthOdOx] It is Merc Policy payment is due on delivery.
[04:20] [UnOrthOdOx] That said, Team Merc believes more customers are always better, and we have no desire to see anyone removed prior to payment being possible.
[04:21] [Aidun_making_brunch] So meaning we can't pay now means no renting?
[04:21] [UnOrthOdOx] At this point, no renting. Things may change. But right now, we have to consider ourselves as likely a target as you.
[04:22] [UnOrthOdOx] Our security has to be #1 priority.
[04:22] [Aidun_making_brunch] Very well. It is unfortunate we cannot trust each other but if it has to be so, so be it
[04:24] [UnOrthOdOx] As I say, things may change, and quick, if we determine our position to be one where we can risk sending help. At present, it profits us nothing and is a huge risk to our security.
[04:25] [Aidun_making_brunch] What is quick?
[04:26] [UnOrthOdOx] Could change next turn for all I know. Right now, the team is not secure in our position enough to send units anywhere but our own defense.
[04:27] [UnOrthOdOx] We have to consider our own defense #1.
[04:27] [Aidun_making_brunch] Would you mind to let me or my replacement know when you guys want to rent units?
[04:29] [UnOrthOdOx] We will keep you informed, yes. But you should do likewise with this Horde business.
[04:29] [Aidun_making_brunch] What would you like to know of the Horde business?
[04:30] [UnOrthOdOx] If they attack or something. It might influence our thought process. Like I said, we are not keen on seeing a customer removed from the game prior to them being able to hire us.
[04:32] [Aidun_making_brunch] There are neither roads nor railroads. If it comes to an early clash, I doubt you guys can mean anything for us from that moment on except perhaps for trade.
[04:33] [Aidun_making_brunch] techtrade
[04:34] [UnOrthOdOx] You seem to be expecting to go down quickly if attacked...
[04:36] [Aidun_making_brunch] We don't expect to be attacked, we hope not to be attacked.
[04:37] [Aidun_making_brunch] Consider that the Builders of Sarantium are urging to forget about building and units are all that matters.
[04:38] [Aidun_making_brunch] Intelligence tells us much, as I said. Rush could tell you that too.
[04:40] [Aidun_making_brunch] Consider also that we prefer not to hire the Mercs early on.
[04:40] [Aidun_making_brunch] I'm not here just for orientation
[04:43] [UnOrthOdOx] So you're on the receiving end of an archer rush right now.
[04:43] [UnOrthOdOx] ?
[04:45] [Aidun_making_brunch] We can't be sure of that yet, but the indications are certainly there. I'm not sure how much I can tell you.
[04:47] [Aidun_making_brunch] The situation is not dire yet, but considering that both their units need considarable time to reach us, it might very well me troublesome very soon. We have 4 units of them around our capital right now.
[04:48] [UnOrthOdOx] And your defense? can you say?
[04:48] [Aidun_making_brunch] We are buyilding it up, but they have archers we don't.
[04:49] [Aidun_making_brunch] We're sacrificing population growth for production.
[04:49] [UnOrthOdOx] Well, I'll see what the team says with this information. Keep in mind, anything of ours will also take considerable time to get there.
[04:50] [Aidun_making_brunch] I know, that's why I'm contacting you now.
[04:50] [Aidun_making_brunch] I'll have to get an agreement on all of this also.
[04:50] [UnOrthOdOx] I can assume you're researching archery now?
[04:51] [Aidun_making_brunch] Such as the screenshot exchange
[04:52] [Aidun_making_brunch] There's debate about that and I think it is turning towards archery, but at this moment we can choose for any military tech. Some prefer bronzeworking, but many argue the situation doesn't allow such a gamble
[04:56] [Aidun_making_brunch] I mean we don't have to go for archery, Bronzeworking is an option, but risky too.
[04:56] [UnOrthOdOx] It does pay off if it works. But you're pretty much screwed if you lack copper.
[04:56] [Aidun_making_brunch] yup
[04:57] [Aidun_making_brunch] So let both teams consider what has been said here. I really hope after telling you much we can expect something in return.
[04:59] [UnOrthOdOx] I'll see what I can convince the team of. There's a few things we may be able to do for you sooner rather than later.
[04:59] [Aidun_making_brunch] With regard to Sarantium and the negative stance towards the Mercs. The situation prior to the game is not the same as the one in game and MZO people make up a good deal of Sarantium as you know. Also the Poly people are now more familiar with the concept through what we have told them
[05:00] [Aidun_making_brunch] I think most negative comments were the fear for entering the cold water
[05:00] [UnOrthOdOx] Do you need the log here?
[05:01] [UnOrthOdOx] I'll email it to you if you need.
[05:01] [UnOrthOdOx] Where you disconnected in the middle.
[05:01] [Aidun_making_brunch] I have it too. If I don't have it somehow, I'll PM you
[05:01] [Aidun_making_brunch] I have both parts. mIRC continues
[05:01] [Aidun_making_brunch] I think
[05:01] [UnOrthOdOx] You still at lycos . nl ?
[05:02] [Aidun_making_brunch] sir.aidun@gmail.com
[05:02] [UnOrthOdOx] man my addy book goes back ages in some cases...
[05:03] [Aidun_making_brunch] Mine too. I still have the lycos account, but at some point spam bots got to know of it.
[05:03] [Aidun_making_brunch] so I don't use it anymore
[05:04] [UnOrthOdOx] Alright, I got to get going for work. I'll be in contact soon after the team has seen some things here.
[05:05] * #Merc is being logged
[05:05] [Aidun_making_brunch] Thanks, cya at MZO. Have a nice day

[polarnomad]

Nice! Lots of info about Sarantium and the Horde, yet not much revealed about ourselves.

I laughed out loud at your comment:

Originally posted by UnOrthOdOx

[04:34] [UnOrthOdOx] You seem to be expecting to go down quickly if attacked...