War Powers Amendment discussion

[Chuckman]

I forsee a number of conflicts possible in the future. I would think now would be a good time to clarify the constitution on the matter of declarations of war.

This first point I feel strongly about. A successful resolution of war poll should be acquired when declaring war from any state of non-war. This will allow the citizens to clearly reaffirm a war they support. It will also place a check on the government if a conflict is going badly or if there has been a shift in the balance of power.

Another thought to consider would be a window of time for war to be declared. I would think 10 game turns would be a reasonable window i. e. Permission to declare war on Mali between 1970-80ad. If plans are delayed the citizens would reaffirm the desire to go to war with a new poll with a new time frame.

[Nugog]

This resolution also recognises the strategic use of cease fires and cessation of hostilities (peace agreements) as a time honoured tool of war to further the aims of Concordia, and that these do not, in any way, disallow further resumption of hostilities against the nation of India.

Strategic cease fires and even peace treaties are a common war gambit.

They can be used to aquire techs or gold, rallying troops etc.

So I do not agree that this should not be allowed.

Another thought to consider would be a window of time for war to be declared. I would think 10 game turns would be a reasonable window i. e. Permission to declare war on Mali between 1970-80ad. If plans are delayed the citizens would reaffirm the desire to go to war with a new poll with a new time frame.

Again I disagree - the length of time another resolution would take to pass would reduce the number of chats possible during a turn.

I personally believe that once the citizens have given the government permission to engage another civ in war, then that government must be given the leave to finish that war, as and when they see necessary, unless the resolution has clearly stated the goals that would end the war.

Too many things can happen during the turn chat that change the needs of the time. These "happenings" must be reacted to at the time.

[couerdelion]

Nugog,

The simple solution would be to start the first resolution to "Destroy Civ #". Completely unambiguous and leaves no doubt what the resolution is for.

Unless the resolution is clear as to the scope of the war, a new resolution would seem necessary.

The irony is that the only time that a subsequent War Resolution would be rejected by the citizens would be if they do not want another one. So if a war was declared without a resolution there is the risk that the executive are not acting in accordance with the desires of the citizens. To avoid this risk is simple.

[Metaliturtle]

I have to agree with nugog here.

I just doesn't make sense to put a turn limit, if the AI triggers a GA, it will take longer to accomplish even minor goals against their improved production.

[fed1943]

I cannot see a reason to amend the Constitution, here.

We must not forget that can be a Resolution about any matter, with

any extension, with just one limit: have to respect the constitution.

And there is a "special" Resolution, to decide start a war; is a Res.

like any other, but is always necessary to the said "act" or "action".

But that "always necessary" condition does not prevent any other

type of Res. ( maximum would be something like the always war).

And, in the middle of the execution of a Res., the citizens still can

pass another saying different.

So, the Const., as I see it, is clear and is not an obstruction to the

will of the citizens.

Best regards,

[Chuckman]

Originally posted by Metaliturtle
I have to agree with nugog here.

I just doesn't make sense to put a turn limit, if the AI triggers a GA, it will take longer to accomplish even minor goals against their improved production.

Just to clarify, my thought was to provide a window for a declaration of war not to cover the full extent of the war. Clearly there are any number of reasons why a war may take longer than originally anticipated.

[Paddy]

why do you wish to complicate matters?

the resolution of war is for the war

not just occasional battles

[Metaliturtle]

As Bill Clinton said recently, if you're breaking eggs you damn well better make an omelette...

[Zoid]

I agree with Nugog et al. No need to complicate matters. If the citizens agree to a war then the war goes on until the government feels it´s over.

And there´s always the option to start a "Stop the War" poll

[RobWorham]

Originally posted by Zoid
I agree with Nugog et al. No need to complicate matters. If the citizens agree to a war then the war goes on until the government feels it´s over.

And there´s always the option to start a "Stop the War" poll

Precisely

[ChrisiusMaximus]

next we will be having polls for every unit that attacks in a given turn, which one should go in first fair citizens of Concordia Pah utter nonesense.

Burn em all I say

[RobWorham]

[rjmatsleepers]

Originally posted by Zoid
I agree with Nugog et al. No need to complicate matters. If the citizens agree to a war then the war goes on until the government feels it´s over.

And there´s always the option to start a "Stop the War" poll

Chuckman's suggestion was about how long could elapse between the poll and the declaration of war, not how long the war itself could last.

It seems to me quite reasonable that if a war poll is passed, but the government does not declare war during the next turnset, the citizens should normally be asked to reafirm their support for the war. But it rather depends on the wording of the resolution. If the government can get the citizens to sign a blank cheque, then so be it.

In any case, I'm not convinced that a constitutional amendment is needed. Perhaps if Chuckman could let us know the wording he is thinking of, that might aid discussion.

RJM

[Nugog]

Sorted?

[couerdelion]

Originally posted by Zoid
If the citizens agree to a war then the war goes on until the government feels it´s over.

Unless there is an explicit agreement in a resolution on the objectives of the war, it is over when peace is agreed and not on some vague feeling of the government - which can be changed to suit their own wishes.