Turnplayer Thread No. 6

[Swiss Pauli]

We need that plains river farm at Sweet Tooth to bring irrigation north to Jericho. I would most definitely not pull a worker off that duty, as it's needed to make Jericho worthwhile long-term. (We're going to be giving the oasis tile back to Constantiniple soon, and without it Jericho doesn't have much food.)

Irrigating Jericho is only going to be worthwhile once we get Biology, and we're quite a long way off that yet. Cottaging the shared grass tile is the better move at this point.

[sooooo]

We've already started farming that tile and it doesn't have a road - best to leave it I think. I'm fine with spending a single worker irrigating Jericho, it's not a big resource drain.

Just a note that the injured troops 1SW of Calakmul should probably stay where they are to heal and have Godiva move to them so she can head the troops inside the city too.

[Zeviz]

I prefer Sooooo's cottaging plan. In fact, I'd build cottages instead of farms near Jericho as well. Farms don't do much for that city, since it doesn't even have mines to make farms worthwhile.

[Sullla]

Well, a new turn (T175) is underway:

- Cape Town finished a cuirassier, and I set it to another.

- Courthouse finshes in Jerusalem, onto Forbidden Palace. Will complete in about 10t with forest chop and city growth.

- Jungle Fever finishes its whipped Granary; I don't think we ever decided on the next build here, so it's temporarily set to Culture. I think our best options are Forge, Lighthouse, Library, or Courthouse.

- I'm assuming that we're whipping the Granary at Chichen Itza, since it will starve regardless of what we do...



Militarily, Imperio didn't move their units, so we still have the same situation. Looks like we'll be able to capture Uxmal without too much trouble, probably cost us one or two cuirassiers because of their prior injuries. I'm going to suggest we move the two captured workers above onto the forest tile 1E of Chichen, where they can road it next turn. Should be pretty safe there, or we can move one Oromo from Chichen onto the tile to be absolutely safe. (The other Oromo going onto the gold hill to protect the workers moving there.)

In the south, I guess we just move our stacks north towards Lakamha. We can capture three more Imperio workers this turn in the south. Pretty easy stuff there.

[Zeviz]

I would attack Uxmal with obsolete HAs instead of wounded Curassiers. HAs might be a little weaker now, but Curassiers could heal and become useful units for PAL war, while HAs are obsolete and just cost us upkeep. (We'll never afford their upgrade cost.) One useful thing we could do with an HA is to promote the one with free promotion to Medic. We need a second medic for mounted stack and HA is good for it, because it's weak and fast.

Also, our captured workers could road their current tile, allowing an Oromo to garrison Uxmal this turn, instead of next one. Meanwhile, another Oromo could kill pike. (It's on a hill now, but it would be more dangerous if it moved into a city.)

Talking about garrisons, we should put 3 Oromos into Uxmal as quickly as possible, because its Statue of Zeus would make it primary target for PAL raiding parties.

For city builds in new cities, I'd go for (Granary)->Courthouse->Forge->Library. Forge might be better in the long term, but we need to get financial situation under control as quickly as possible, which means courthouses are a higher immediate priority.

PS Uxmal is one city where I would build a Theater, because it will need to fight culture of PAL's relatively new city in the channel.

[sooooo]

I support Forge at JF for more efficient whipping. Courthouse would not be a bad option but saving ~4 gpt is not going to make much of a dent in our budget defecit so I'd favour the long-term approach here. Also the city is right next door to our future FP city.

The captured workers in the north I had forgotten about, but I think a better option would be to chop the plains forest that the other two near Chichen have just roaded. That tile needs chopping anyway to spread irrigation to the city's wheat.

At San Sebastien I think we should work clams+mine instead of 2xclams because that way we can single-whip the granary in 5 turns instead of waiting to size 4 to double-whip, which takes much longer. Also we will whip with the food box half full.

I think we should whip a theatre in Chichen this turn, not a granary so that we can get the gold under our control asap. That's pretty important for our very war-weary cites. Also Pink's bank can be whipped.

I changed Red Herring to settler.

Can I restate that a lot of our recently drafted oromos have no chance of reaching the battlefront before the war is over so should not be sent there. There's Jezebel, Janice, Ida and Lucretia that should be used for garrison and MP duty. Specifically, garrisonning Jerusalem is a priority. I know we will get +2 happy from the gold in a few turns but WW is rising very quickly (now +7 at A1) and we may yet need more military police.

[Zeviz]

Most of these suggestions sound good, but it might be better to use captured workers to road their tile to enable Oromos to hit pike and/or reach the city they need to garrison. 2 lost worker turns are less valuable than a curassier we will lose if that pike is left free to attack the city defended only by wounded curassiers.

...
I think we should whip a theatre in Chichen this turn, not a granary so that we can get the gold under our control asap. That's pretty important for our very war-weary cites. Also Pink's bank can be whipped.
...

If we don't get theater, 15/2 = 8 turns to get Gold, less if we build culture for a turn or tow.
If we whip theater now, 13/5 = 3, so total of 4 turns to get Gold, so a saving of 4 turns.

Since we are about to lose a lot of WW due to capture of Statue of Zeus, and will get +2 happy from wonder in Lakhama in about 4 turns, would it make any difference if we get Gold in 4, rather than 8 turns? (And I mean difference that can't be made up by temporarily redirecting some MP units.)

[sooooo]

It's more than that since if we whip the theatre now we can hire artists and get the border pop the following turn. It kinda depends on how much extra WW we get from capturing Uxmal (I predict at least 1 WW), but getting gold in 2 turns would be very good for us and is of a very high priority. Waiting 8 turns to get gold is too long.

EDIT: The comparison is wrong anyway since it's 10 to pop the border on normal speed.

Good point about the captured workers roading their current tile. I forgot that the tile won't be in mayan culture when the oromos want to move. We should do that and hit the pike.

[Sullla]

Having those captured workers build a road to hit the Imperio pike with our Oromo is a fine idea. Just be aware that that leaves nothing to guard the workers, which can be immediately re-captured... unless we assign some horse archers to that tile. (Which I guess we could and should do... but they won't get any defensive bonuses... but if the pike is dead, that shouldn't matter...)

OK, it's a good plan! Go for it.

Chichen will pull in 2 culture this turn, leaving us 8 to go for the first border expansion. (I think Zeviz is a little too used to Epic speed!) We can easily pull in 4 culture/turn each over the next two turns to get a border expansion in 3t, and I would suggest we do that (by building Culture, most likely.) Since the gold and wheat tiles are by far the best ones at this city, we want to get a quick border expansion to grab the gold anyway, for tile yield as well as happiness purposes.

I completely agree with sooooo on Forge in Jungle Fever, which is why I listed it first out of possible builds. I do think we should wait maybe 3-4 more turns before getting a settler out of Red Herring though. Let's wait until Imperio is completely gone before planting a city in the Mutal area. The last thing we want is to worry about defending another city up there. Easier (and easier on our finances) to wait a couple turns and plant the city after the Spaniards are gone.

Finally, if sooooo's micro suggests working a grassland hill mine at San Sebastian over the second clams tile, I'm all for it.

[sooooo]

OK, so to summarise here are the contrasting approaches at Chichen Itza:

Plan (a) is to whip a granary this turn and build culture over the following 2 turns to get a border expansion in 3 turns (start of T178). We lose 3 population from whipping the granary.

Plan (b) is to whip a theatre this turn, then the following turn (T176) start a granary and hire an artist. That gets the border expansion in 2 turns (T177). Then we whip a granary on T177. We lose 2 pop each from the theatre and the granary.

In comparison over those 3 turns, plan (b) gets the gold a turn earlier and trades one population point for a theatre and 15 hammers worth of overflow. I think plan (b) is better: whipping the theatre this turn and whipping the granary on turn 177.

[T-hawk]

Looks like the micromanagement has been well in hand lately so I haven't been following closely. But if you want another vote, I like plan B. Chichen as a captured city will need the theater for happy in the long run so let's do it now. There's no reason to eat the whip-from-scratch penalty on 3 pop worth of whipping instead of 2.

[timmy827]

Looks like the micromanagement has been well in hand lately so I haven't been following closely. But if you want another vote, I like plan B. Chichen as a captured city will need the theater for happy in the long run so let's do it now. There's no reason to eat the whip-from-scratch penalty on 3 pop worth of whipping instead of 2.

I don't agree with this priority. Chichen won't need the extra happy in the long run because all of that Motherland unhappiness will disappear when we kill Imperio in a few turns. I do agree with the "whip a cheap building from scratch due to the penalty", so how about a lighthouse (2 pop) followed by building culture for the border pop? With all the unimproved tiles, the lighthouse looks to be pretty useful...

Also, the city is going to grow slowly if it works the gold, so is there any way to bring some workers to chop the subsequent granary rather than another whip?

[Zeviz]

...
In comparison over those 3 turns, plan (b) gets the gold a turn earlier and trades one population point for a theatre and 15 hammers worth of overflow. I think plan (b) is better: whipping the theatre this turn and whipping the granary on turn 177.

Ok, that changes my mind. How much production would we get from a regular whip? (If it's just 1 pop for 15 production tradeoff, we might as well get the Theater.) I wouldn't prioritize the lighthouse, because we are about to obsolete colossus.

[sunrise089]

Turn 175

City Report:
*Airstrip 1 - Oxford due in 5.
*Pink Dot - Bank due in 1 via whip.
*China Beach - Courthouse due in 2. Cat on hold.
*Cape Town - Cuirassier complete. Cuirassier due in 2.
*Something Fishy - Islamic Missionary due in 4.
*Green Acres - Islamic Missionary due in 13.
*Mellow Yellow - Bank due in 166.
*Saxon the Beach - Bank due in 19.
*Bluebell Fields - Bank due in 28.
*Red Herring - Courthouse due in 9.
*Upper Burgundy - Barracks due in 1.
*Frozen Clams - Barracks due in 1.
*Jericho - Cat due in 2.
*Jerusalem - Courthouse complete. Forbidden Palace due in 15.
*Jungle Fever - Granary complete. Forge due in 99.
*Sweet Tooth - Granary due in 9.
*Constantinople - Granary due in 1.
*San Sebastien - Granary due in 12.
*Chichen Itza - Theater due in 1 due to whip.
*Damascus - Courthouse due in 12.
*Acre - Granary due in 60.
*Calakmul - Granary due in 61.
*Uxmal - Theater due in 51.

Worker Report:
*It seemed like the Syme+Dave plains cottage plan had 2 votes and everything else only 1, so I went with the cottage at MY.

Domestic Military Composition Report, defensive units in blue, offensive units in red, naval units in pink:
*Chichen Itza garrison - 2 Oromos
*Constantinople garrison - 1 Oromo
*Damascus garrison - 1 Longbows
*Acre garrison - 3 maces
*Calakmul garrison - 1 Oromo, 2 maces, 1 longbow, 1 pike
*Uxmal garrison - 1 Oromo, 2 Cuirassiers, 1 HA
*Northern strike army - 2 horse archers
*Southern army -
-->Wave 1, 2 tiles from Lakamha - 9 Oromos, 3 elephants, 2 maces, 2 pikes, 7 cats, 1 chariot
-->Wave 2, 1 turn behind - 4 Oromos
-->Wave 3, in transit and healing - 3 Oromos, 1 mace, 1 cat, 1 GG chariot
-->Wave 4, in transit and available for garrison duty - 4 Oromos
*Northern squadron - 1 trireme and 2 galleys in the channel.
*Southern squadron - 1 galleon inside Acre.

Enemy Military Composition Report:
*Imperio southern troops: 3 muskets, 1 pike.
*Imperio northern troops: zzz
*PAL has one caravel in the channel.

Military Action Report:
*Battle for Uxmal - I think we have to go with a Cuirassier for our first attack. We can get 4.3% with our top Cuirassier and .8% with our best horse archer. To me that just brings up too much risk of not even damaging the musket with a HA attack.
-->Cuirassier attacks musket at 4.3% and dies
-->Cuirassier attacks musket at 4.0% and dies
-->HA attacks musket at 21.3% and dies
-->HA attacks musket at 61% and dies
-->HA attacks musket at 99% and CAPTURES THE CITY!
-->We capture a lighthouse, colosseum, and the Statue of Zeus
-->Oromo attacks pike south of Uxmal at 85% and WINS AND TAKES NO DAMAGE!
-->2 remaining horse archers cover the two workers that roaded their forest.
-->2 wounded Cuirassiers move into Uxmal to heal and prevent a cheap PAL naval attack while only an Oromo and HA were in the city.
*Garrison Oromos - Priscilla hangs out in A1 for another turn. I also have an Oromo each heading to Jerusalem and San Sebastian. I'd also propose we start thinking about when we want to start garrisoning our western coastal cities - PAL only got Astro this turn, and our western cities are far away from PAL, but they're also quite important. We definitely want 3 Oromos in GA by the time PAL could get a fully galleon there, maybe in 10 turns or so.
*We captured another 3 Imperio workers, and Imperio appears to have as few as six remaining military units in total.
Pic:

Spoiler:

Spy Report:
*zzz

Questions and notes:
*I went with Soooo's option B as it seemed to have the most votes. So I whipped the theater in Chichen Itza and queued up a granary.
*Islam successfully spread to UB.
*10k power down to PAL after our casualties attacking Uxmal.
*Half of our cities now come from the ranks of our enemies!

[mostly-harmless]

If all goes well, we should get Lakamha on T177 and Mayapan on T180.
I still think we should use our Galleon to attack Mayapan and finish the war on T177.
We don't even have to use units from Acre, there are 2 Oromos and one CR3 mace at Calakmul, which we can use.

How are we going to handle PAL? Do we want to turtle up and spend lots of effort in garrison each coastal city and slowly try to catch up on PAL's tech lead (who by then will be fuelled by the absorption of Banana land) or do we want to carry the current momentum over the channel and attack Alexandria and maybe Akethaten? That would reduce the danger of boating significantly. All PAL's harbors will be very far away and low production. Also PAL is at it's weakest right now, with their army engaged in the south.

mh