Turnplayer Thread No. 6

[sooooo]

I presume CB went back to a cat after it's university? If so, that's probably not the best build since the cat will take too long to reach the battlefield. Probably a courthouse, bank or even building Wealth is better.

I don't have time right now to go over the worker actions but I'm sure Sullla's are fine.

At Constantinople we presumably don't want to whip a granary with the box virtually empty. Either we whip with the food half-full or not at all.

[Zeviz]

The plans look good, but I have a couple comments:

1. We need to kill two defenders near Acre.

2. The tile Sulla plans to road is vulnerable to Imperio's Curassier. If we road the tile 1 south of it, we will not have to worry about defending the stack this turn, and the Curassier should be gone next turn. Alternatively, we should cover the stack that cleans that hill with a pike.

3. In the north, let's move sentry HA first next turn. That will show us what Imperio has in their city, so we'll know if sending in wounded Curassiers is required. (I'd prefer to let them heal, instead of wasting them on a suicide mission to raze a minor city.)

4. I still don't see the point of Theatres in cities that aren't near happy cap. Our biggest expense right now is city maintenance. I agree that Granaries are a high priority, but our cheap Courthouses will be good even if we have the FP nearby.

[darrelljs]

4. I still don't see the point of Theatres in cities that aren't near happy cap. Our biggest expense right now is city maintenance. I agree that Granaries are a high priority, but our cheap Courthouses will be good even if we have the FP nearby.

Well, since no one else has chimed in I'll say that I agree with this...

Darrell

[Dreylin]

- Jerusalem is definitely the right spot for the Forbidden Palace. Yes, Damascus may be geographically better, but it will take enormously longer to build it there, since that city is on the front lines and lacks basic infrastructure. We can whip it out in about 10t in Jerusalem... Although the FP won't make a huge difference, we can use the savings. This is one case where speed is more important than a perfect placement, IMO.

Thanks Sullla; I figured that this was the reason, but no-one had actually vocalised it yet!

[MyOtherCar]

Also I would like to suggest to Banana, that if the Warning raid is cancelled due to good defenses or very successful (ie. plenty of Banana survivors) he actually declares war on Imperio and boats Mayapan.
mh

Shouldn't Donovan concentrate on PAL? Imperio is dead meat, even if Naldo logs in. Although it would speed up our conquest, enabling us to lend aid to Banana earlier.
Do our generals see any benefit in threatening Eisenburg and thus negating iron to PAL? At the very least it would divert some units to the north.
Thinking of the north: do we have any new info about Rabbits?

[scooterf]

4. I still don't see the point of Theatres in cities that aren't near happy cap. Our biggest expense right now is city maintenance. I agree that Granaries are a high priority, but our cheap Courthouses will be good even if we have the FP nearby.

I'm going to go ahead and agree with this too. I mean I see the point, I just think the priority list goes:
1. Granary
2. Courthouse (whip?)
3. Theater

(Granted, I'm the resident demogame newbie who hasn't totally caught up yet so feel free to ignore this)

[sunrise089]

Just a quick note that I will be playing the turn on time. I've been out house shopping but will be home in time.

[sunrise089]

Turn 171

Paintshop at it's finest:

Spoiler:

City Report:
*Airstrip 1 - University complete. Oxford due in 11.
*Pink Dot - University complete. Theater due in 2.
*China Beach - University complete. Cat due in 3.
*Cape Town - Cuirassier complete. Another Cuirassier due in 2.
*Something Fishy - University complete. Islamic Missionary due in 5.
*Green Acres - Islamic Missionary due in 17.
*Mellow Yellow - Bank due in 170.
*Saxon the Beach - University complete. Islamic Missionary due in 3.
*Bluebell Fields - University complete. Bank due in 32.
*Red Herring - Forge due in 1.
*Upper Burgundy - Barracks due in 6.
*Frozen Clams - Barracks due in 20.
*Jericho - Cat complete. Another cat due in 7.
*Jerusalem - Courthouse due in 4.
*Jungle Fever - Granary due in 43.
*Sweet Tooth - Granary due in 13.
*Constantinople - Granary due in 6.
*San Sebastien - Granary due in 51.
*Chichen Itza - Theater due in 51.
*Damascus - Theater build is back and due in 51.

Worker Report:
*Much better - all of Sullla's instructions followed.

Domestic Military Composition Report, defensive units in blue, offensive units in red, other units in pink:
*Chichen Itza garrison - 2 Oromos
*Northern defensive units - 2 Oromos, 1 axe, 2 archers.
*Jericho garrison - 1 archer.
*Constantinople garrison - 2 Oromos
*Damascus garrison - 2 Oromos, 1 Pike, 1 Longbow
*Acre garrison (for Banana) - 3 maces
*Northern strike army - 3 Cuirassiers, 5 horse archers
*Southern army -
-->Wave 1, outside Calakmul next turn - 5 Oromos, 1 elephant, 2 maces, 2 pikes, 1 longbow, 4 cats
-->Wave 2, outside Calakmul in two turns - 4 Oromos, 2 elephants, 1 mace, 2 cats
-->Wave 3, in Imperio territory after capturing Imperio's workers and killing Imperio's pike and longbow - 1 Oromo, 2 maces, 1 chariot

Enemy Military Composition Report:
*Imperio southern troops: 1 Cuirassier, 2 pikes, 3 longbows.

Military Action Report:
*Mounted units moved into position 1S of Chichen Itza.
*Battle for the Imperio hill:
-->Cat v mace at 3.8% - Dies and leaves us with maces at 7.1 and 6.9
-->Shock mace v mace at 71% - WINS
-->Oromo at 86% v mace (no mace was better tha 51%) - WINS
-->Mace v cat at 96% - WINS
-->Chariot v cat at 99% - WINS
-->Longbow v cat at 99% - WINS

Spy Report:
*Probably time to consider building a spy for the Imperio campaign.

Questions and notes:
*PAL got a positive event on their forge in The Warning
*I offered our second horse to Banana.
*I did NOT offer Acre to Banana, since we don't need to this turn, do we?
*Our small naval stack started sailing north to scout the channel.
*Exact tie with PAL for score.

[Sullla]

That is a truly awesome Photoshop screenie, sunrise!

We got a nice break on the combat results for a change, all wins even in the 70-80% range. Lost one cat to kill three cats and 2 maces, I like that exchange! 5k against 33k in Soldier points.

What is exactly is our plan to capture those Imperio workers? Wait and see where they go next turn? Maybe I'm missing something obvious here...

We can indeed wait until next turn to gift Acre to Banana. However, we'll have to gift it early in the turn, have Banana accept, then gift the units and load them on the galleon, all in the same turn. Just make sure that we're on the same page with Donovan.

I'll have more comments tomorrow, since it's nearing 2am here and I really should get some sleep.

[sunrise089]

You're right Sullla - better to safely grab those workers. I logged back in and added the two mostly healed Oromos and the mostly healed elephant from the stack with the GG in it to the hill tile next to the Imperio workers.

Imperio can still move the workers 1N and cover them with the longbow, 2 pikes, and the Cuirassier. In that case though all of those units will be cut off from Calakmul. I suspect they will just cover them with the longbow and pike pair, in which case the two Oromos can capture the workers and be covered by the elephant.

[Kodii]

Are we still worried about Imperio seeing the Banana galleon? In that case, we may want to take the workers now, because I doubt Imperio are going to want to fight for them back

[mostly-harmless]

@ Kodii: Imperio can see the Galleon from their cultural borders, not the workers.

Re. Imperio workers: Why don't we capture them with Lady Godiva? Lady G will have enough movement points to retreat to Acre for cover. That will leave the workers unprotected (as they will have no movement points), but will mean that IMperio will have to either split up their troops or backtrack their two unit stack to re-capture them.

Re. Const. Should we not work the Horses 2f/4h/2g instead of the Village 2f/0g/3g? Trading 4hammers for 1g sounds good to me, especially in a phase where we want to stand up infrastructure as fast as possible?

mh

[Kodii]

@ Kodii: Imperio can see the Galleon from their cultural borders, not the workers.

Doh. Thanks for pointing that out.

[Zeviz]

Thanks for the detailed screenshot.

A few notes after looking at the save:

1. Unless we are sure that gifted units can be moved on the same turn in simultaneous turn pitboss, we should gift Acre and units in it this turn.

2. City management:
2.1. Frozen Clams should build/whip Courthouse instead of Barracks. This will save us 4gpt.

2.2. In the near future, Courthouse will be better in Bluebell Fields than Bank. (Even at max cash, Bank would give 6gpt, and it would take 32 turns to build. Courthouse would save 3.2gpt even when we run science, and would take only 16 turns to build. So delaying Courthouse by 32 turns is worse than delaying Bank by 16 turns. Whipping the buildings doesn't change this conclusion.)

2.3. Chichen Itza should start with a Granary, not Theatre. Creative will let us get border expansion in 8 turns. If we take 2 turns to whip Theatre, we'll get border expansion 3 turns later, saving only 3 turns. Is building a Theatre to get gold 3 turns earlier worth it? (Note that we'd still have to road up to and up the gold hill.)

2.4. I'd also whip courthouse instead of Theatre in Damascus. We can't afford to loose extra 4.5gpt when our total income at 0 science is just 46gpt.

3. Should we move HA stack to Gold hill, instead of the tile north of it? If Imperio has roads near that hill (which I doubt), and attacks that stack, any attacking unit will not get back to the city in time. And the hill will give us better visibility.

4. Should we return one of our galleys home to save on unit upkeep? (Just Tireme and 1 Galley for backup should be enough to monitor northern passage.)

[Sullla]

- First, everyone is aware that Banana's galley next to Acre is already full of units, right? A mace and two Cho-Ko-Nus. We may not need to gift Banana any units at all, if their attack goes as planned. Will have to wait and play things by ear.
- Zevis is right: we should move our Mounted stack onto the gold tile 2W of Oxhuitza next turn. Imperio lacks roads in the area, so the tiles are effectively the same, and the gold tile makes it easier to retreat. Nice call!
- Disagree with Zeviz about Bluebell Woods. Courthouse does little good here, because the city is so close to the capital. Saving 3gpt isn't anything to write home about; better to get a bank going, which will permanently increase gold by 50%. Yes, it may be the same 3gpt right now, but the bank will pay off much more in the long term as the city grows and works more plantations/cottages.
- Similarly, barracks needs to come before courthouse at Frozen Clams. We need the barracks for happiness and drafting purposes there. Courthouse probably should be the next build there, however.
- Micro note: make sure to merge the Great General in Green Acres next turn before drafting, for the extra promotion.
- Here's a larger question: which city do we want to take the oasis tile longterm, Jericho or Constantinople? I think we want Constantinople to get it permanently, but I like Jericho having it at the moment while it grows to size 6 (for drafting purposes), and because Jericho really lacks for improved tiles right now. Other thoughts on this?

Worker Recommendations (sooooo, feel free to jump in on this)
- Bernard/Helmholtz finish the farm on the current tile. Steve moves NE of Upper Burgundy and starts a farm on the grassland tile there. Basically, we might as well finish off irrigating to the rice while we're in the area.
- Hugs (the "New Worker") moves south to the plains tile 1N of Sweet Tooth. He can irrigate there starting next turn and then begin the trip to bring irrigation north to Jericho.
- Winston/Dave/Syme all work on Sweet Tooth's sugar plantation.
- Parsons/John/Max finish the banana plantation and then start the road on that same tile.
- Out of the Bob/Erik/Nok Tok group, one of them should probably add a road connection on the village tile SW of Constantinople or the forest tile north of the cows. The other two should head 5 moves away on our road network to the sugar resource 2W of Jerusalem and continue chopping the jungle. sunrise, if you don't think we need a road connection on one of those two tiles, then just send all three of the workers to the sugar resource 2W of Jerusalem.
- O'Brien/Mustapha are free for military duty. (If we do capture the Imperio workers, we can send them back west to help out improving our new cities.)
- We will need some workers in about 5 turns to connect the gold resource outside Chichen Itza, assuming the attack on Oxhuitza succeeds. (And we're going to need that extra happiness!) Please keep this in the back of your minds.