Turnplayer Thread No. 5

[MyOtherCar]

and Imperio has missed playing 4 of the last 5 turns....

They are probably still reading up on Aidun's emails.

[sooooo]

Education costs 2574 beakers and currently Plato gets us 1740 beakers, though that changes with our population. We'll draft one city this turn but also gain 3 pop points, so it makes sense to lightbulb early next turn before drafting again. So I suggest we have the slider high this turn, then lightbulb and then we might be able to get the tech in 1 turn depending on what losing the golden age does for our tech rate. At 100% we get 448 beakers, but that is not modified by other civs knowing the tech or having a pre-requisite I believe and also I don't know how much overflow we got from Paper. Think we should spend a turn at 90% just to make sure we don't go over the scientist line.

[sunrise089]

Turn 161

City Report:
*Airstrip 1 - Market due in 14.
*Pink Dot - Forge complete. Courthouse due in 3.
*China Beach - Worker due in 3. Catapult on hold.
*Cape Town - Catapult complete. Another cat due in 1. We will have to make an Oromo in a turn or 2 or loose some overflow.
*Something Fishy - Catapult due in 4.
*Green Acres - Islamic Missionary due in 2.
*Mellow Yellow - Courthouse due in 2.
*Saxon the Beach - Library complete. Courthouse due in 4.
*Bluebell Woods - Bank due in 21.
*Red Herring - Settler complete. Forge due in 10.
*Upper Burgundy - Library due in 4.
*Frozen Clams - Lighthouse complete. Library due in 21.
*Jericho - Barracks due in 4.
*Jerusalem - Theater due in 51.
*Jungle Fever - Granary due in 14.

Worker Report:
*Erik and O'Brien worked on Upper Burgundy's wine.
*Nok Tok and Winston have been assigned to combat enginer duty starting next turn, and will build a direct road from Jericho to the new southern cities.

Domestic Military Composition Report:
*Cape Town garrison - 2 Oromos, 2 cats, 1 axe, 3 archers.
*Jericho garrison - 1 longbow, 1 archer.
*Jerusalem garrison - 2 knights, 2 elephants, 4 maces, 2 horse archers, 3 pikes, 1 longbow, 5 cats, 1 GG chariot.
*Northern Constantinople pincer - 1 knight, 3 Oromos, 2 maces, 1 pike, 3 cats.
*Southern Constantinople pincer - 1 knight, 3 elephants, 4 maces, 3 horse archers, 1 pike, 3 cats.

Enemy Military Composition Report:
*Constantinople garrison: 4 macemen, 2 horse archers, 1 crossbow, 6 longbows, a GG.
*Imperio mega-stack: 1 knight, 3 elephants, 7 macemen, 2 horse archers, 3 pikes, 5 longbows, 11 cats.

Military Action Report:
*The pincer attack on Constantinople.

Spoiler:

I realize this is a bold attack, but I don't think it is foolhardy. Templar don't have any cats, so they would suffer huge losses attacking out. With our peace treaty with Imperio set to expire soon, I think it's best to capture the city ASAP. Also note the 4 mounted units in Jerusalem can attack Constantinople on T163 just like the 1-movers, although we'll wait a turn to cat anyways.

Spy Report:
*Templar eastern front:

Spoiler:

*Imperio southern front:

Spoiler:

Questions and notes:
*Paper is in and Education is due in 6.
*We now have ten Oromo warriors I only drafted Green Acres this turn, since I think we're waiting a bit before double-drafting.
*The GG is heading to Cape Town to be settled.
*We're going pretty light on the new units recently, other than cats and Oromos. Of course that's because we don't have access to horses, but as soon as we get them back expect me to nag for some more knight builds.
*Chatted with Donovan in game, apparently PAL is 2 turns from econ. He asked about our next military move, and I sidestepped and told him we needed a couple turns to heal and reposition. I asked about Acre and he brought up Feud, but I didn't press either point. He said he was worried about spreading himself too thin, but would have a cultural peek into the city soon.
*Where did we decide this settler was going? 4E of Pink Dot?

[Swiss Pauli]

Had a look in game: Pink is at the happy cap and due to grow in three turns, so I suggest switching from rice to the river cottage. Next whip anger wears off in 9, and war with Imperio will cost two (losing gold). Also, shouldn't CB work the plains forest instead of the coast for max overflow from its worker?

[mostly-harmless]

Do we still want to build two galleys in Cape Town for attacking Chichen Itza?

Is there any powermove Templars can do with their GG to boost defenses to a gree we will be in trouble?

mh

[sooooo]

Checked the save and everything looks fine except I question why we have healthy troops including catapults sitting in Jerusalem with movement points left. We do have 6 catapults involved in the siege of Constantinople, but with walls that will take them 2 turns to bombard. I think we should sent the other 5 cats and the rest of the healthy troops onto the cows tile and they will be a turn behind.

That way we can bombard half the defence away on the first turn they arrive. Then the second turn we can both bombard down to 0% and also have enough cats to suicide on the same turn, thus speeding up the capture of the city by a turn.

Thoughts? Need to make a quick decision since we have just over 3 hours.

[mostly-harmless]

As long as we can protect both cat stacks against a desperate suicide attack from Templars, fine.

mh

[Swiss Pauli]

We should move those cats as well.

[Sullla]

Well, I thought the same thing about moving the cats up. Then I logged into the game, and saw that it just isn't a good idea. We don't have enough units to protect the cats from being attacked and destroyed by the Templar stack in Constantinople. Essentially, the problem is that we don't have a good enough "top unit" to defend against their maces (no healthy knights or Oromos down in Jerusalem). As a result, it's just too risky for us to send out those cats with weak protection. I don't think we should trust Templars to be tactically incompetent, so I agree that we leave sunrise's tactical movement as they currently stands. (He knows this stuff better than we do. )

It's possible to start moving up those cats next turn, if we wish to do so, when more of the units in Jerusalem are healed.

What we CAN do is shift down some more units from the Cape Town region. I shifted an Oromo and a cat SW-S onto the cattle tile north of Jericho, where they can move into position to head for Constantinople if we choose. Whether or not to move them up as well depends on what Imperio does with their uberstack. If that uberstack heads for Constantinople or Damascus, then we move them in. If their uberstack continues north, we have to shift more of our forces back to defend against an attack at the Cape. I don't think we trust them an inch.

Based on the movement of that stack, I think that Imperio is actually heading for Constantinople. If they do declare on Templars and move in, we let them bash their heads against the city.... and then turn on them as soon as it's captured!

[sooooo]

Well, I still disagree and that we do have enough troops to defend the cats but I don't want to go against you and sunrise. We don't need any troop to defend Jerusalem because there is no route to it, therefore we can put a very good defense on the cows spot.

I highly doubt that templars would attack out of constantinople with their maces. They leave any maces that win exposed to counterattack and also leave the city exposed. Maybe it's still their best option but templars have shown a turtling mentality so far.

[Sullla]

sooooo - it's not about Templars attacking Jerusalem, it's about them attacking the stack moving up with catapults. They can move S-S-SW or SE-SW-SW and hit our units coming out of the city, and we get no defensive bonus on the grassland cattle. Our best defenders would currently get coinflip odds against their maces, and there's just no reason to risk that if we don't have to. Besides, I ran the numbers and those cats are not critical at Constantinople anyway. Here's how things will look in terms of the attack planning:

T162: Move the two incoming stacks next to the city. Move our healed Mounted units in Jerusalem NE-N into the forest. Move another Oromo/cat pairing SE of Jericho.
T163: All six cats bombard (26% defenses left). Move up Mounted stack and final cat.
T164: Four cats bombard (10% defenses left). Three cats suicide. Send in the troops.

It's too bad that we can't get another 2 cats there, but it's just too risky. Playing against humans isn't like playing against AIs. We can't assume that the Templars won't attack out of Constantinople. And if Imperio isn't threatening the city, we can always wait an additional turn and bring the defenses all the way down.

[sooooo]

Alright, 10% and 3 suicide cats is good enough. I'll stick to the domestic matters

I never thought that it was about Templars attacking Jerusalem, I just thought that templars would not attack our outermost stack at coinflip odds with their maces, sacrificing them even if they won their battle because they could not get back into the city.

[mostly-harmless]

Alright, 10% and 3 suicide cats is good enough. I'll stick to the domestic matters

I never thought that it was about Templars attacking Jerusalem, I just thought that templars would not attack our outermost stack at coinflip odds with their maces, sacrificing them even if they won their battle because they could not get back into the city.

I would agree with that, if it wasn't for Templars overall standings. They know they lost nad have loads of free time available in say 2 weeks time. No doubt they carry a big grudge against us. I would not be surprised if they do something funny with their last turns (especially should Imperio declare) and move everything they have (including all the garrison) against one of our stack, just to make our live miserable.
So these cats stack needs to have top defenders to survive such a mad last ditch rush.

mh

[MyOtherCar]

Good point, MH

[sooooo]

Imperio are roading towards constantinople - I think that's their target now. Our plans will have to be flexible depending on how Imperio move.

The longbow stack seems to have moved from its gold tile - maybe Betty could search for them next turn.

I think we need to chop that last forest at Bluebell for the university, since the city has poor production and it will be the toughest of the 6 to get finished in decent time.

Sunrise, instead of using Winston and Nok Tok to build a road 2S, 1W of Jericho, how about instead we send O'Brien and Erik onto the hill 2S, 2W of Jericho instead. Then they both make the road the following turn. That seems better to me because (a) it seems to make a "better" N/S road by eye, (b) we want to mine that hill anyway so may as well road it and save turns climbing it and (c) we'll probably want to road the plains hill 2S of Jericho too, so a road adjacent to that hill seems redundant.

I think I'd actually send Nok Tok onto the hill 2S of Jericho even before Constantinople is captured to get a head start on roading it. We can road in enemy territory, right? He can be covered by Abigail the Oromo.

For Winston he can move south and chop the same jungle tile Mustapha is on.

Other suggested worker actions:

Helmholtz moves 1N into the last forest at Bluebell, preparing to chop a university.
Bob to move into one of the jungle-sugar tiles in Jerusalem's first ring.
Mustapha can keep chopping.
Dave to move onto Upper Burgundy's winery and do the last 2 turns of winerying.
Steve to start another cottage at bluebell, probably 1N of the one that will finish next turn.