Turnplayer Thread No. 5

[timmy827]

But if you take this attitude then surely a forge never gets built? 48 turns will pass and we'll still have no forge. We could get industrialisation/coal power but following this strategy we'd not want to build a forge+factory+coal plant because it would take say 30 turns to pay off and we'll probably be in a war with PAL. But then those 30 turns pass and the city is still only getting 40 hammers a turn for military.

Well sure, sometimes I do that in my games (for the special case of the HE city, since the opportunity cost of a forge is twice as much). Sure the longer-term payoff of a forge is good if you are sure you have enough units for the present/near future, but I'm not sure we will ever be at that point in this game...Factory opportunity cost is basically same as forge since we're Org, and Coal Plant is a much better deal (only 150h, +50%, and opportunity cost lower since you have +50% on building produtction instead of 0).

Also by later in the game the base HPT per turn will be higher (biology, workshops, etc) which favors the forge/factory/plant. Part of the reason I'm belatedly opposed to forge is that Cape Town's base HPT isn't that great, usually I see the HE in better terrain (another food bonus + couple more hills).

Maybe it would never be built if we keep thinking a decisive campaign is in the near future. That may not be the case in a war with PAL after we dominate our continent; it's conceivable that due to the need to naval invasions it's more or less a stalemate. Then the logic is less in favor of the immediate payoff of continuing nonstop units.

I guess I'm still in the Op. Bloodbath frame of mind, the idea that once we got Nationalism + Gunpowder we would throw everything into a big military push. Continuing to pump support units instead of a forge just makes more sense to me.

@sunrise: well, maybe, but... Using the non-GA numbers (40 hpt base/5hpt more), we would have to be between 25-59h into a mace, 45-49 h into a knight, etc. for it to pay off (I'm ignoring the cumulative per-turn bonus as that will sometimes overflow into making a unit a turn earlier and "reset" itself). To me it seems that P(sneak attack) * P(sneak attack force vs. our defending force such that one extra unit is a big deal) * P(forge means extra unit w/o whipping) is awfully small.

[mostly-harmless]

Btw. Our trireme doe snot need to move along IMperios coast. We won't see their new city from the sea as it is well inland. Better to have the trireme around Red Herring.

mh

[T-hawk]

I guess I'm still in the Op. Bloodbath frame of mind, the idea that once we got Nationalism + Gunpowder we would throw everything into a big military push.

That was the plan, but now suddenly we find ourselves with a lack of targets. Imperio signed peace with a 40-turn NAP. We negotiated away all Templar cities after Jerusalem. Attacking PAL needs Galleons to be feasible. So despite the Bloodbath plan, we now find ourselves in a builder lull.

[sunrise089]

That was the plan, but now suddenly we find ourselves with a lack of targets. Imperio signed peace with a 40-turn NAP. We negotiated away all Templar cities after Jerusalem. Attacking PAL needs Galleons to be feasible. So despite the Bloodbath plan, we now find ourselves in a builder lull.

Well the overwhelming majority of voters already have signed off on not honoring our treaty if we don't get gunpowder this turn, so it isn't clear if we're going to have a NAP for more than the 10 turns of enforced peace.

[darrelljs]

That was the plan, but now suddenly we find ourselves with a lack of targets. Imperio signed peace with a 40-turn NAP.

Everyone voted "B" or lower on question #4, and Imperio didn't give us Gunpowder, so I think we still have target . Waiting 40 turns before going after them is suicidal.

Darrell

[MyOtherCar]

Just before the enforced 10 turn peace ends we should make clear to them that we consider they broke the treaty. So when we dow them on turn 10, we can say we warned them.

[sunrise089]

Just before the enforced 10 turn peace ends we should make clear to them that we consider they broke the treaty. So when we dow them on turn 10, we can say we warned them.

I don't think there will be a need to DOW from us. The order as I see it:

1) Settle city east of Something Fishy
2) Capture Jerusalem and keep the city
3) Settle two additional cities between Something Fishy/Jericho and Jerusalem
4) Capture Constantinople
5) Have Banana capture Acre
6) Settle a coastal city between Constantinople and Acre
7) Capture the final Templar city

If Imperio lets us get to 7 before declaring on us...well they would be pretty silly to declare on us once we have 20 cities.

[sooooo]

Frozen clams grows next turn and its tundra hill forest will start to get chopped too. It currently has 11/60 turns in the granary, so I propose that next turn it works that hill forest tile. That means for the 4 turns it will take the forest to be chopped it gets 4x5=20 hammers, getting 31/60 hammers. The chop will finish off the build. Then the following turn we can start on a lighthouse and whip away the third citizen a turn after to finish that. Then it's full speed ahead to get to size 6 and draft.

Also I think we should delay whipping the settler at Mellow Yellow. Quite simply, we don't have the workers in place for a setter for the city E of Something Fishy quite yet. IMO we may as well wait 3 turns so that we can draft the city before it is whipped. I changed the city to a courthouse to continue to grow for those 3 turns.

Worker actions: People do what they were doing except for these ones: O'Brien on the hill outside Red Herring builds a road before he finishes the mine. That's so Bernard can use the road the following turn. Parsons and Syme in the south should build a combat road (see a post I'm about to make in the Operation Sweetheart thread). After they have built that one road they can head south to prepare the ground for our next city on the south coast. There are 3 workers in the north that have finished chopping Cape Town's forest. One of them should go onto Upper Burgundy's rice and start a farm there. The other 2 I think we need for combat engineers (see OS thread again).

[Sullla]

Based on the discussion in the Civics and Imperio threads, I was under the impression that we were planning on researching Gunpowder tech at 90% this turn, now that we knew Imperio wasn't trading it to us. When I logged into the game though, we were down to 7 hours left and still running min science on Paper! So I made the research swap:



If this is not correct, someone needs to log into the game and change back! However, I'm pretty sure this what we want to do. We have about 8-9 hours to change our minds, if needed.

I ran the numbers, and we are making 580 beakers/turn at 90%, at our unsustainable deficit pace, in Golden Age mode. Definitely not sustainable, but pretty cool regardless. (Bad news: PAL's GNP is the same as ours this turn! Both right around 600. They are also running unsustainable 100% science - but that's still bad!)

[mostly-harmless]

When running 100& science, PAL gets a heavy GNP boost from universities, oxford compared to us.

The world should be glad we snatched a 12turns GA from them.

mh

[Swiss Pauli]

Offered horses to Banana in-game.

[Swiss Pauli]

The turn has ticked over...






We're now supplying Banana with horses. PAL has 1082 in the bank. FWIW, no Gunpowder offer from Imperio.

[darrelljs]

Darn civil of them to build Notre Dame and The Sistine Chapel for us.

Darrell

[Sullla]

What bizarre timing to build those wonders - they had to start them shortly after the war with us began. Don't really understand the reasoning either, since Imperio doesn't need Notre Dame happiness at all. Perhaps they intend to play for a Cultural victory with Sistine (?) That wonder will certainly help us a lot if we can capture it later, as darrell said.

More good news: none of our somewhat exposed units were counter-attacked by Templars last turn. I know that would have been the shock of the century, but it could have theoretically happened! Templars have been doing exactly one login per turn for the past four turns, so we may as well asssume that they won't see anything we do late in the turn until the next one rolls around.

I'm going to poke around and get a Soldier count update in a little bit.

[Dreylin]

So 1082(this turn) -900(last turn) -(one turn research) =(Taj Refund)

Next turn we'll know what their research adjustment rate is an we can work out their refund.