Globe Theatre Project

[sooooo]

Here's a save with the correct amount of food in the box, the correct hammers invested on the forge, the correct civics and 3 turns left on a golden age.

Running some sims now.

[MyOtherCar]

Actually - looking at it, I think the plan was that The Globe is available on T141, so we could whip the forge on T140 and we would only put 1 turn of production into science. I'm going to have to check all of this in game as these numbers will be disturbed by the blasted golden age (this GA is really messing with our forward planning - we shouldn't do them anymore!).

I looked at our city screens from turn 131. If a Golden Age adds one commerce and 1 hammer to each tile that at least has one of those, I estimate that we loose following in hammers and commerce:

A1 : -5H -5G (reassigning the 2 scientists to work tiles)
PD : -4H -5G
CB : -4H -5G
CT : -6H -2G
SF : -6H -5G
MY : -3H -3G
SB : -1H -2G
BW : -4H -4G

Total: -33H -31G

Maybe someone else can calculate how much leaves us at 100% gold. And then, with an average of 25% bonus from libraries see how long Nationalism will take?

[ruff_hi]

Here's a save with the correct amount of food in the box, the correct hammers invested on the forge, the correct civics and 3 turns left on a golden age.

Well done. BTW - how did you do that - just played forward carefully moving the tiles around until they all lined up?

[sooooo]

OK, this is looking very good. Here's my sim:

T0: building barracks, working wines, 2x seafood, grass mine, plains forest.
T1: switch to forge, grow to size 6, whip forge (down to size 4), work 2x seafood, wines, grass mine
T2: forge done, start theatre (due in 1)
T3: theatre done, golden age over. Start barracks (due in 2!). Grow to size 5, work a plains forest.
T4: Whip barracks with 1t to go.
T5: Start globe theatre! 30 hammers of overflow into it, size 5 and 14/30 in the food box.

That's great! 5 turns to finish forge, theatre and barracks and get 30 hammers into the globe.

Now the question is ... can we finish 5 other theatres in the same timeframe?
The answer is surely yes. However, we would have to perform a 1-pop whip at Mellow Yellow. At Airstrip One we could just about do it if we finish the monastery (3 t) and then work a lot of mines to get theatre in 1 turn. Cape Town is fine. China Beach and something fishy may have to change the plans I laid out above but it is definitely doable. So I propose that we aim to start the globe theatre on turn 140. That means having 6 theatres finished by turn 139!

[sooooo]

Well done. BTW - how did you do that - just played forward carefully moving the tiles around until they all lined up?

Yes, set off golden age and revolted to islam, slavery and org rel. Then played around until 4 t to go on golden age, editted terrain to get extra mines, a lumber mill to get right hammers, hit next turn and put the terrain back.

[MyOtherCar]

Well, that sure beats any excel-sheet!

Just one question: what good will it do us to have Globe Theater before we have Nationalism, which will take maybe 16-17 turns? It seems to me we need to time the GT to be finished exactly when we have Nationalism. Forcing the GT earlier would cost us in terms of hammers and commerce, wouldn't it?

[sooooo]

It will do us no good. However, the globe was still a 29-turn build in my sim. Obviously that would reduce with a chop, but maybe if we start earlier we would only need one chop? It's impossibly to say since we don't know when nationalism is due and it's too complicated to work out (far best just to wait 3 turns until golden age is over). If we can get away with just one chop then that's ideal because we don't exactly have an abundance of workers available and we need a lot of irrigation.

[Dreylin]

@MyOtherCar: GA has such a ridiculous excess of food that it regrows a size in about 2turns. Currently it only has 4 improved tiles to work, so once it gets to size5+ it's diminishing returns anyway.

[MyOtherCar]

It will do us no good. However, the globe was still a 29-turn build in my sim. Obviously that would reduce with a chop, but maybe if we start earlier we would only need one chop? It's impossibly to say since we don't know when nationalism is due and it's too complicated to work out (far best just to wait 3 turns until golden age is over). If we can get away with just one chop then that's ideal because we don't exactly have an abundance of workers available and we need a lot of irrigation.

Hey! I spent a couple of hours fiddling with my excel-sheet to give an eta of 13 turns (without barracks) for Globe, I just posted that Nationalism is at least 16 turns away after counting tiles. I was just wondering why nobody even commented on my posts today and yesterday, now I'm wondering if somebody even reads them.

[Dreylin]

I was just wondering why nobody even commented on my posts today and yesterday, now I'm wondering if somebody even reads them.

Well, I've been reading them all, can't speak for anyone else!

Don't take it personally if you don't get explicit replies to some of your posts; sometimes the threads of the conversations (and the game) take people straight past individual posters and yes, things can get lost.

[sooooo]

I didn't mean to disparage your work, I just meant that your date for nationalism was an estimate and will change a lot on whether we whip cities, change tiles etc. The monastery at A1 for example will be a significant boost since a lot of our commerce comes from that city.

I didn't realise you spend 2 hours on your excel spreadsheet to calculate those 13 turns. And that's without chops, right? Not sure how it was so different to the game's 29 turns though. Did you have more overflow?

Maybe it's best to delay the project by 1 turn and get the absolute maximum overflow from the barracks to the globe. We can do that by changing our tiles during the barracks build. Hmm, I'll investigate.

[MyOtherCar]

@MyOtherCar: GA has such a ridiculous excess of food that it regrows a size in about 2turns. Currently it only has 4 improved tiles to work, so once it gets to size5+ it's diminishing returns anyway.

I know: it regrows every 2,5 turns. But I meant also any lron-worked tiles at other cities, or where we choose hammers over commerce.

[sooooo]

OK, if we work a coast tile instead of a plains forest once we start the barracks that puts it back to a 3 turn barracks instead of 2, allowing whipping at 48/50 hammers invested which gets us a bit more overflow and a bit more food in the box. That's slightly better and also gives us more ease in the timings for the other 5 cities. So I propose a revised date to start the globe theatre of turn 141.

EDIT: BTW: we need at least 1 forest chop on the grass because we need to farm that tile.

[ruff_hi]

thx for that save - I'll run my simulation (whip both forge and barracks into The Globe) and see how I can do. I'm in no rush to start the globe, but I would like to get it finished as soon as possible. That means, if it makes sense to delay the start to get max hammer overflow, then we should do that.

[ruff_hi]

Sim 1 - 11 turns ...

1 - Forge (74/120 hammers); 11 base hammers -> 13; Size 5
2 - Forge (87/120 hammers); 13 base hammers -> 16; Size 6
3 - Forge (119/120 hammers); 13 base hammers -> 16; Size 6
4 - Swap to Theatre (0/50 hammers); 8 base hammers -> 18; Size 6 (drop out of golden age)
5 - Theatre (18/50 hammers); 9 base hammers -> 20; Size 7
6 - Theatre (38/50 hammers); 9 base hammers -> 20; Size 7
7 - Theatre Done with 3 hammers overflow; = (38 + 20 - 50) / (1+25%+100%) = 3.56 rounded down to 3
7 - Barracks (need to only put max of 12 hammers in or lose double whip)
7 - Barracks (0/50 hammers); (3) + 6 base hammers -> 11; Size 7
8 - Barracks (11/50 hammers); whip for 2 pop; 86/50; 6 base hammers -> 7; Size 5
9 - Globe (0/300 hammers); (34) + 8 -> 52; Size 6 overflow = (86+7-50)/1.25 rounded down to 34
10 - Forge (119/120 hammers); whip for 1 pop; 156/120; 7 base hammers -> 8; Size 5
11 - Globe (52/300 hammers); (29) + 9 -> 57; Size 6 overflow = (156+8-120)/1.5 rounded down to 29
12 - Globe (109/300)

I think this is the best way to get max hammers into Globe by start of Turn 12 with no worker actions required. Finish the balance by normal turns or worker chops. Only 1 bit of mm, on turn 7 so that you don't put more than 12 hammers into the Barracks.

Note: if you complete the forge first, you have to put 4 or less hammers into the barracks. Hmm - let me try that.