Globe Theatre Project

[sooooo]

Currently we are getting 10 base hammers. We are now in org religion, so next turn we add 12.5 hammers to the 74 we have toward the forge, giving 86.5, leaving 120-86.5 = 33.5 hammers. In org religion, each whip gets us 37.5 hammers. So if we wait until next turn to whip then we would only get a 1-pop whip! That is not good. It does not make sense to stop working hammer tiles, so that means that we need to whip the forge this turn!

Furthermore, if we assume whipping GA this turn, with GA, SF and China Beach requiring new builds next turn, we may want to get drama this very turn! Using the very rough approximations of 20 turns to nationalism and 13 turns to globe theatre, that gives 7 turns to build 6 theatres if we want to get the globe to coincide with nationalism. This is definitely doable, but drama next turn would be a big help. At green acres the theatre is more important than the barracks. So I would say: whip forge this turn, overflow into theatre. Then build barracks until the other 5 theatres are done and swap to globe. Once globe is done, finish barracks.

So, unless I've made any mathematical errors (always a good bet!), then I recommend whipping Green Acres this turn and putting research up to get drama this turn.

[ruff_hi]

The only problem with that is that what do we research after Drama? We get a Great Person in 2 turns (93% chance of Great Scientist). If we get the GS, then he bulbs philosophy and we start researching nationalism.

So, following Sooooo's idea ...

T0: Drama
T1: ???
T2: Nationalism

How about we put 1 turns worth of production into the Barracks ...

T0: slow research into Drama, GA on Barracks
T1: Finish Drama, GA whips Forge
T2: bulb philosophy, slow research into Nationalism, GA on Theatre

[sooooo]

Ruff, that is a good point and a good solution. We should do that. [EDIT: In fact, we could spend more than 1 turn on the barracks, maybe even 3 or 4. That uses more of our time at a large size during the golden age, which could get us more hammers towards it than being at low size but having a forge bonus. Further calculations needed here]

Now to how fast we can build 6 theatres ...

Theatres for creative souls like ourselves cost 25 hammers.

Aistrip One can build a monastery (due in 3), then go for a theatre and get that done in another 2-3 turns (depending on what tiles the fired scientists work).
At China Beach it's a 3-turn, non golden-age build. We have time to build something cheap (3 turns or less) first.
At Something Fishy it's a 2-turn build, provided we don't whip the city (which we may want to do, but that's OK). We would probably want to go for a barracks or catapult next, whip it and then complete the theatre.
Mellow Yellow could need some help. If we let the library finish (3 turns) then building the theatre in non-golden age time takes 5 further turns. That's the longest, but we can (and should) bring it down by switching to a theatre the turn that drama comes in. That catches the last turn of golden age and brings the city down in tune with the other 5 cities.
Bluebell Woods: We would have to put the next chop (due from chopping the roaded grass hill) into a theatre instead of a forge. That seems fine.
Green Acres gets the theatre in 1 turn due to overflow from the forge's whip.

So that's our 6 cities! Furthermore we don't have to involve Cape Town or Pink Dot, our military cities and we don't have to stop Saxon while it is building the Maoi statues. So I'm pretty sure we can get the 6 theatres done in 6 turns from now, T141.

In 3 turns time we will be out of golden age and have a much better clue as to how many turns it will be to nationalism, so we can tailor our chopping plans to get the globe started on T142 and finished on the date that nationalism is in.

[Dreylin]

Sounds good, but we should add the caveat that any of these builds should be suspended if we need more units at either front.

[mostly-harmless]

I am not sure it is of much relevance but any culutre we add to Cape Town and Pink Dot (i.e. theatre) will help pushing our boundaries east.

mh

[regoarrarr]

Ruff - is that the same WB save from before? If so, I'm not sure how accurate a test it will be, unless someone has some time to get the cities and techs and builds and such more up-to-date.

I unfortunately do not have that time

[ruff_hi]

It is the based on the same file as ages ago. It is no where near current for our tech rate but it fine as a microcosim of GA (ie whip what when, into what, how, forest chop, etc).

[Sullla]

Bluebell Woods: We would have to put the next chop (due from chopping the roaded grass hill) into a theatre instead of a forge. That seems fine.
Green Acres gets the theatre in 1 turn due to overflow from the forge's whip.

I agree with the other cities, but not this one. Cape Town can build a theatre in 1 turn; Pink can do it in 2. Surely we can get a theatre into one of these cities instead of Bluebell! Forest chops at Bluebell would be much better served going into a forge, IMO.

[sunrise089]

Yes, as much as I'm a hawk here, I think Cape Town can probably build a one-turn building soon.

[ruff_hi]

I'm going to take a look at GA and see if we can do the following ...

- double whip the forge into The Globe
- double whip the barracks into The Globe

Do do this (thinking out loud!), we need to make sure that there is no more than ...

- Forge: 38 hammers outstanding (30 x 1.25 - Org Rel)
- Barracks: 45 hammers outstanding (30 x 1.50 - Org Rel + Forge)

This will put max 90 (actually, about 70 - see below) hammers into The Globe.

IIRC, GA can put out 10 base hammers (12 with Org Rel), we have 0 hammers in the Barracks (60 req?) and 74 hammers in the Forge (120 req) ...

T135: 12 hammers -> Barracks (12/60, 48 remaining)
T136: 12 hammers -> Theatre (24/50, 26 remaining)
T137: 12 hammers -> Theatre (48/50, 2 remaining)
T138: 12 hammers -> Theatre Done (11 hammers overflow)
T139: ??
T140: ??
T141: Double whip Forge (11+28 hammer overflow +12 normal production) ; 28 = 2 x rounddown(30 x 1.25) - (120 - 74)
T142: 15 hammers (+51 overflow) -> The Globe (66/300, 234 remaining)
T143: Double whip Barracks (42 hammer overflow +15 normal production) ; 42 = 2 x rounddown(30 x 1.50) - (60 - 12)
T144: 15 hammers (+57 overflow) -> The Globe (138/300, 162 remaining)

and complete The Globe in another 11 turns (or with some forest chops).

I think that is how the whip / overflow / production calculations work.

However, I have 2 turns in there where production goes no where - we could build a unit (but those hammers will decay after 10 turns of non production and we would lose the 11 hammer overflow from the Theatre) or we could build science(!).

As per usual - can someone check my numbers, in particular the number of hammers needed to build a barracks (I thought it was 60, but CFC says 50 - wasn't that changed in a patch or an expansion pack)? Or I could just check in game .

[ruff_hi]

Actually - looking at it, I think the plan was that The Globe is available on T141, so we could whip the forge on T140 and we would only put 1 turn of production into science. I'm going to have to check all of this in game as these numbers will be disturbed by the blasted golden age (this GA is really messing with our forward planning - we shouldn't do them anymore!).

[T-hawk]

Barracks is 50 hammers.

The whips don't all have to be double whips. Whipping at a point just into the 2-pop threshold and overflowing onto the wonder is the same as whipping for 1 pop when the barracks is almost done. Either way just under 30 base hammers of whip flows onto the wonder. In other words, you can never overflow more than 1 pop worth of whip.

Remember that the only downside of single-pop whipping is extra anger. But a city that's going to build the Globe Theater doesn't care at all how much anger it racks up!

So we could just put those two spare turns onto the barracks while waiting for the other cities to finish theaters.

[regoarrarr]

Also, a theater will get us twice as many hammers per turn as a barracks. So it would be 24 per turn for a theater

[MyOtherCar]

I'm going to take a look at GA and see if we can do the following ...

- double whip the forge into The Globe
- double whip the barracks into The Globe

Do do this (thinking out loud!), we need to make sure that there is no more than ...

- Forge: 38 hammers outstanding (30 x 1.25 - Org Rel)
- Barracks: 45 hammers outstanding (30 x 1.50 - Org Rel + Forge)

This will put max 90 (actually, about 70 - see below) hammers into The Globe.

IIRC, GA can put out 10 base hammers (12 with Org Rel), we have 0 hammers in the Barracks (60 req?) and 74 hammers in the Forge (120 req) ...

T135: 12 hammers -> Barracks (12/60, 48 remaining)
T136: 12 hammers -> Theatre (24/50, 26 remaining)
T137: 12 hammers -> Theatre (48/50, 2 remaining)
T138: 12 hammers -> Theatre Done (11 hammers overflow)
T139: ??
T140: ??
T141: Double whip Forge (11+28 hammer overflow +12 normal production) ; 28 = 2 x rounddown(30 x 1.25) - (120 - 74)
T142: 15 hammers (+51 overflow) -> The Globe (66/300, 234 remaining)
T143: Double whip Barracks (42 hammer overflow +15 normal production) ; 42 = 2 x rounddown(30 x 1.50) - (60 - 12)
T144: 15 hammers (+57 overflow) -> The Globe (138/300, 162 remaining)

and complete The Globe in another 11 turns (or with some forest chops).

I think that is how the whip / overflow / production calculations work.

However, I have 2 turns in there where production goes no where - we could build a unit (but those hammers will decay after 10 turns of non production and we would lose the 11 hammer overflow from the Theatre) or we could build science(!).

As per usual - can someone check my numbers, in particular the number of hammers needed to build a barracks (I thought it was 60, but CFC says 50 - wasn't that changed in a patch or an expansion pack)? Or I could just check in game .

Wouldn't it be better to first finish the forge? The earlier it is in play the earlier we get the 25% bonus!
Let's say we finish the forge in 3 turns (with whipping), after that we can have the Globe in 12 turns. If we have to wait longer because we have to wait for Drama and for the other theaters to finish, we could start on the barracks and, if necessary whip after GT.

[MyOtherCar]

P.S. The above calculation is without forest chops. So we can speed up Globe even more by 4-5 turns. So if we start Globe on turn 142. We can have it finished at about turn 150. So that would be 5 turns earlier than Ruff's calculation. Btw: you forgot that after a double whip GA gives less hammers.

Do we have an estimate on Nationalism?