Turnplayer Thread #3

[T-hawk]

Unfortunately, I'm away for the holiday weekend starting Thursday morning. (I'll be online but won't have my Civ 4 PC to log in.)

Sullla, if you want to play and report T129, feel free. If you haven't played by ~5 hours from now, I'll do it. I am not confident in commanding units during wartime, though, and would much rather see sunrise or sooooo in charge of that.

Zeviz, Something Fishy is on forge not worker. Do you mean China Beach? I think I do agree with military from CB, we do have quite a few workers active in CB's area now.

[Zeviz]

...
Zeviz, Something Fishy is on forge not worker. Do you mean China Beach? I think I do agree with military from CB, we do have quite a few workers active in CB's area now.

Yes, CB (which is scheduled to swap in worker this turn).

And if any of our other cities can afford the whips, perhaps we should put in a round of Elephants throughout the empire. The sudden jump in military rating might even scare one of our neighbors into delaying their attack.

[sunrise089]

I would suggest we whip any active elephants before they can get cut off. For China Beach though it may make more sense to start a Mace (only needs copper, right?) which we can whip AFTER the war declaration but before the copper gets pillaged.

Feel free to disregard if the mace would be too far away unless we whip it now. I don't know the distances quite yet.

[T-hawk]

CB is about four turns away from the front line for a 1-mover, with Engineering movement now. I like the idea of elephant there now to whip next turn. Should wait on the actual whip until after we see Imperio/Templars have already moved but not declared. (If we whip, then lose ivory before turn changeover, the build does NOT complete but we get a cash refund.)

Or are we considering an elephant whip from scratch at CB, eating the 50% penalty?

I also think that Something Fishy needs to change dyes for forest to finish the forge this turn, so it can start a unit on T130 and whip it (with forge bonus) on T131.

[sunrise089]

I support both of those plans T-Hawk assuming we think we'll pick up the disputed tile. Otherwise I don't think the jumbo will complete because Ivory will be cut off.

I also think we should try and get enough gold to upgrade our axe to a mace. In my scenario I ran (updated info coming tonight) each addition strength-8 unit is very useful.

EDIT - Didn't I also read above that Cape Town won't be able to finish an elephant this turn? If the tile doesn't flip that build wont get completed either, will it?

[Sullla]

Note that this was before T-Hawk and sunrise posted above, although some of my thoughts we on similar lines. I would not support whipping at double penalty at China Beach; better to wait one turn and whip mace, IMO.

And if we're going to do upgrading, shouldn't it be spears to pikes before we lose iron? Just wondering outloud here. Now, on to the report.

OK, despite some techical difficulties, and being played from a hotel lobby a couple blocks away from the Louvre, here comes T129:

- Although I'm sure everyone is aware of this already, Imperio is moving a large and presumably unfriendly stack in our direction:



This stack has not moved yet this turn, and we fully expect it to move along the yellow arrows outlined above, probably moving in the final minutes of the turn. Our one saving grace is that the pink tile *should* revert to our cultural control next turn, slowing down their stack by a turn. Let's hope so anyway.

- I have been moving our units in Imperio territory in an attempt to save their lives (and make them useful!) if/when war breaks out. Our archer, Billy Jean Tell, will be in the clear if she can move before Imperio and if the pink tile reverts to us. Our chariot, Lady Godiva, can make it back to our territory pretty easily. I have not finished her moves because I want to keep an eye on where that stack moves.

We will likely lose Billy Jean, but Lady Godiva should survive, I think. And keeping every unit alive in a war counts!

- The original plan was to swap to a worker this turn in China Beach, and whip it next turn. But given the current situation, I've swapped to horse archer instead, and I think we should whip it next turn. I also think that Airstrip One should go over to military next turn when it finished Heroic Epic. (The capital can do 3-turn horse archers or catapults.) Thoughts/comments/suggestions?

- Pink Dot finished its library, and we have queued up a catapult. While this can be debated, I feel it's the right call, so we get some siege going there when/if Templars attack.

- Syme was moved back to Pink, where he will both be safe and do useful work for us. (There was no worker action wasted last turn - he used his turn to finish the road!) Here's the site of operations in the south:



Syme is circled in yellow. He'll chop and mine that grassland hill tile, which essentially gets us a 1t unit of our choice from Pink. Other forests that we may want or need to chop are boxed in thin white. Our other workers in this area are chopping for Colossus (due in 2t), and will then either build plantations on the orange tiles, or begin some emergency chops. Just have to wait and see what our neighbors do.

- Something Fishy finishes forge in 2t. If Templars declare war, we will whip some military here next. If not, we'll probably build lighthouse or barracks naturally next, then whip a worker at size 6. Again, have to wait and see what Templars do.

- I do think we should whip the settler as planned in Green Acres next turn, as that city has no barracks and red is not a threatened spot.

- If Templars are trying to disguise their military actions, they're doing a bad job of it. We can see three of their units moving around....

- Following the discussion in our tech thread, I did swap our research over to Drama, although after I took these screenshots.

- Camilla (horse archer) has not been moved yet. I know someone proposed doing a step-in, step-out move with her. I missed the details of that, but if someone wants to try that, go for it! Knowledge on a Templar stack could be critical.

That should be it for the moment. Keep in mind that this is a very fluid situation. Keep logging into the game, and report to our forums if Templars or Imperio make a major move. I only regret that they picked a bad moment to take action, with me out of town and most everyone else busy with Easter... but we'll show 'em who's boss, eh?

[Zeviz]

If we expect the war to start next turn, we should upgrade several spears to pikes now, while we have Iron. I'd also suggest maces instead of HAs or Cats in CB and Pink, because we have 0 defense against Templars, and we need some strength 8 units in the south before our resources are cut. (If Imperio has 2 spies, they could easily disconnect both our Coppers.)

[sooooo]

We should definitely end our turn before Imperio do. This is due to Krill's ruling of:

Whoever ends their turn first gets the first place in the next turns turn order. The corresponding part of the rule that states that point is the second sentence of rule 1. Even if Imperio wait until t130 to declare war, if you went first on t129, you get to move first on t130 because they have to give you 24 hours to let you log in and make a move.

So the first person who logs in on T130 should move units. Don't log in first if you don't intend to move units!

[sooooo]

We have 198 gold. Upgrading axeperson to maceperson costs 125 gold. A spearperson to a pikeperson costs 90 gold. For me it makes sense to upgrade 1 spear in the north to a pike this turn. Templars I don't think are prepared for an invasion next turn. They have not roaded to our borders.

I have swapped over SF's dyes to a forest to get the forge this turn, which could be important if templars do declare.

Not sure about swapping pink from a catapult. Maybe we should go for a maceperson? If we swap from lake to plains forest then it's a 5-turn build. An elephant would be a 4-turn build but that's pointless if ivory is disconnected. Probably I'm favouring a mace.

Sullla, I think we should move Lady Godiva and Seretariat in good time and hit enter. I know you wanted Lady Godiva to see what they are doing but we know that if they are attacking where their stack will go and Fyre Arrow can see it. If they are not attacking then it's not important where their stack goes. Secretariat I think has enough movement points to step in and our near Jericho but I'm not sure. Can someone confirm?



Secretariat is the circled horse right of the burgundy sign.

[sunrise089]

I REALLY wish I knew for sure if that tile would flip. I guess we're assuming it is? In that case we'll produce a jumbo in Cape in 2 turns, and also a 2 turn mace courtesy of a whip in China Beach? Do we have hammers sunk in our elephant in Cape? If not maybe we should change it to give us another turn of guaranteed production if the tile doesn't flip.

If we're going to produce horse archers in our back city then a cat seems fine in Pink.

I'm not obsessed with scouting the enemy stack anymore. We know an attack may come in 2 turns, and any further out doesn't make us really do anything different. I'd move all units towards the front in order to have them able to defend Pink or hit the Imperio stack ASAP.

I think we should probably upgrade the ax to a mace in Cape Town, but I agree we can wait a turn. I strongly feel a ax->mace upgrade is better than a spear->pike rule. Upgrading the ax next turn should still give us enough cash to at least upgrade one Pink defender, right?

Finally, does it make sense to be logged in during the next turn tickover? Maybe end our turns before Imperio to secure iniative, stay logged in and see if the tile flips, and if it DOESN'T flip then quickly make our next moves and end turn right away. That way even if the 24 hours per team system goes into effect there will be no question of who goes first. I suppose this suggestion means we should ask Banana not to press end turn, so I propose that.

[sooooo]

sunrise,

I REALLY wish I knew for sure if that tile would flip. I guess we're assuming it is? In that case we'll produce a jumbo in Cape in 2 turns, and also a 2 turn mace courtesy of a whip in China Beach? Do we have hammers sunk in our elephant in Cape? If not maybe we should change it to give us another turn of guaranteed production if the tile doesn't flip.

Doesn't make much sense. We have a horse archer lined up in China Beach, not a maceman. We have a catapult lined up in Cape Town because we can have it in 1 turn but a mace/ele takes 2 turns. We have no elephant with hammers in in cape. There is no point having a 2-turn elephant anywhere because our ivory may be cut off next turn. Did you mean to name different cities?

[sooooo]

I have gone into a single player game in my saves folder, revolted to caste system and pumped culture in a border city. As soon as my culture got over 50% on a tile, it became mine. There was no 1-turn delay so I am at a loss to explain what happened there. Maybe culture gets added to a tile in a different order in multiplayer?

[sunrise089]

sunrise,



Doesn't make much sense. We have a horse archer lined up in China Beach, not a maceman. We have a catapult lined up in Cape Town because we can have it in 1 turn but a mace/ele takes 2 turns. We have no elephant with hammers in in cape. There is no point having a 2-turn elephant anywhere because our ivory may be cut off next turn. Did you mean to name different cities?

Yeah, I'm all over the place trying to cover this situation in class and at work while having never been inside the game

T-Hawk and I both talked about a mace/jumbo in China Beach above, but I missed Sullla's mention of the HA build (or missed which city he was referring to).

I don't think a cat is the right build out of Cape Town. I know it will be ready next turn, but we don't anticipate having to hit the Imperio stack next turn (in fact we don't want to do so) because we plan to keep the move-first advantage. Therefore a mace in Cape Town will be available in turn 131, and should be able to hit the Imperio stack in the first 24 hours of the turn, right?

[Zeviz]

Actually, we expect Imperio to declare next turn. Their stack hasn't moved yet, and if the tile doesn't flip, they'll be able to declare and reach Cape Town's walls during the next turn.

[sooooo]

I have moved all units with points left and hit enter. We can still do non-movement things like change builds or upgrade things. But since we have ended the turn before Templars and Imperio then we get first turn intitiative next turn. There is actually no rush next turn as long as we log in and play before 24 hours and as long as the first person to log in moves all of the units and hits end turn.

I realised it was Camilla who was to do the step in-step out manoever and she found 3 tiles of unroaded, empty fog.



I will be surprised if Templars declare war on us next turn.

Our chariot in Imperio territory moved along the line Sullla drew to get back to our territory if the worst should happen.

I changed Pink to a maceperson. I think we should whip her out next turn (double whip). It is already working one bad tile and will grow back to work the cottage again soon. Then the chop can go into something else. I don't think we should upgrade anything at Pink until we know what templars are up to.

Cape Town I can see sunrise's logic for changing to maceman. I haven't done that yet but we can do that tomorrow.

We still need to decide if we're going to upgrade anything. The only reason to upgrade an axe to a mace this turn is if we think both coppers will be sabotaged next turn (unlikely IMO). However if we want a pikeperson then we need to do that this turn.