Turnplayer Thread #3

[T-hawk]

I think we still need a worker before settler from Green Acres. Where would the settler go? North? Our workers there are already 1.5 cities behind schedule with Saxon barely started and Blue Dot completely virgin. Burgundy? That's also unimproved with no workers available soon - they're all busy roading.

Agreed on workers from Fishy and Yellow as soon as practical, likely double-whipping them.

[mostly-harmless]

I don't like how we focus on workers now, hinging everything on Templars not declaring on us.
Why not put in some turns of military build up, that lets us survive even if both neighbours team up on us.

"I urge you to think long term" is only good if we make sure there is a "long term". I believe the established opinion is that we are fine if it is just Imperio coming after us, but we are screwed if Templars team up with them.

If we come through the next 10-25 turns ok, we can whip workers all day long. For now I'd rather have us focus on military units that are dependent on foreign resources. Phants in SF, CT & PD. HAs in CB & A1. We should even consider whipping them.

I would hate to see us loosing out in this game, because a silly team like Templars refuse to see the light. Especially now, that we clawed our way out of the hole.

mh

[Zeviz]

MH, 4 out of 5 cities you've listed are already slotted for Military under my proposal. (Please see Urban Planning thread for details.) So the only difference between your suggestion and mine is Something Fishy, and we are currently building Forge(10) in there, so unless you suggest interrupting Forge build, it will not be building military in the near future anyway.

I think we still need a worker before settler from Green Acres. Where would the settler go? North? Our workers there are already 1.5 cities behind schedule with Saxon barely started and Blue Dot completely virgin. Burgundy? That's also unimproved with no workers available soon - they're all busy roading.

Agreed on workers from Fishy and Yellow as soon as practical, likely double-whipping them.

Red Dot needs almost no worker attention (just a single workboat from somewhere), and would take a long time to get going due to lack of resources. Bernard is done improving A1, and we have 3 other workers for Saxon and Blue Dot, so Bernard could start road to Red Dot next turn. (And I agree that Red Dot should be moved to a hill.)

PS C&D report for Templars indicates that they have 0 Catapults. If they are planning to attack a city on a hill with good cultural defense without siege, they are welcome to suicide their stack of Ancient Units against Archers in Pink. (I agree with Sooooo about sending a few Archers down there from Cape Town.)

[mostly-harmless]

Ah, ok Zeviz, sorry.

C&D report for Templars indicates that they have 0 Catapults. If they are planning to attack a city on a hill with good cultural defense without siege, they are welcome to suicide their stack of Ancient Units against Archers in Pink.

Ok, so they don't suicide but pillage every tile we have and retreat. That's what worries me, Imp & Tem can do considerable damage to our civ, without taking a city, by keeping us holed up in our cities (where we are safe) and pillaging our tiles. The same time they can still trade with the world and we can't.

mh

[Kylearan]

Hi,

Even if Templars leave us alone, we should not be turtling up in Cape Town, but try to wreck some havoc in IMperio land.

I thought the plan was to have enough military now to deter any imminent attack on us, and go on the offense later when we have Nationalism?

Trying to outbuild out opponents now would be harder, and might easily cost us the game as well if we don't succeed.

I agree that we should build enough military to survive any attack though.

-Kylearan

[mostly-harmless]

I have the impression Imperio is to stupid/stubborn to be deterred.

mh

[Kylearan]

Hi,

I have the impression Imperio is to stupid/stubborn to be deterred.

That might very well be the case. To clarify my point, I think we shouldn't build so many units to be able to go on the offense ourselves if they attack, only enough to be able to repel them.

-Kylearan

[mostly-harmless]

IF both Tem and Imp come after us and we just repel them, we still face the problem of closed borders and all the things that come with it (i. no foreign trade whatsoever, we would just trade with ourselves; ii. no resource trade -> no additional happy resources)

So in an worst case scenario, where we face both neighbours, we should aim for taking Chichen Itza to get trade routes going again.

mh

[Sullla]

I would like to see us back off a bit with the whipping in the near future; it was the right decision to get more workers out, but quite a few of our cities are already bearing double-whip penalties now. Time to let them grow out a bit. Whipping another worker at Green Acres next turn is probably the right move though.

We need a little more time to build improvements before starting another settler. I think the next one should go at Twin Peaks actually, as it's getting close to now or never for that spot. And we'll have the Pink/Cape road (plus Engineering tech for fast movement) to support it in place within the next ~10 turns.

We're doing fine on military, and don't need to drop everything to train more units, as mh seemed to be suggesting. Only PAL is rated higher than us, and we're likely going to pass them in the next 5 turns. We are already easily strong enough to defend against Imperio or Templars. There's only so much we can do to stop a combined attack; sending off more diplo message to those teams will do more than building units. Time for some chase-up messages with Templars, perhaps? (It seems like we're perpetually doing that... )

Now, stats for the current turn. I also ended it with ~10 hours on the clock, as we had nothing more to do.

General

Current Turn:
Turn 121 - 150 AD
Turn Timer expires at approx (UTC)

Active Turn Player:
Sullla

Tech:
Engineering (108t)
0% research (10 [13] beakers/turn) @ +91gpt
29/1430 beakers overall

Gold
238g in treasury

Cities

Airstrip One [size 10] [guarded by Xena and Mariah]:
Forge (3t), National Epic (10t)
Infrastructure: Palace, Granary, Barracks, Library, Academy, Great Library
Great Scientist 120/200, +8 GPP/turn, due in 10t
Holding at zero growth until next cottage is finished.

Pink Dot [size 7] [guarded by Britney's Spears and Adria and Athena]:
Horse Archer (1t)
Infrastructure: Barracks, Granary, Aqueduct, Hanging Gardens
Building some insurance military.

China Beach [size 4] [guarded by Ms Piggy]:
Horse Archer (4t) [anger duration 5t and 15t]
Infrastructure: Granary, Library, Barracks

Cape Town [size 5] [guarded by Diana and Fyre Errow and Gillian and Jamie Lynn's Spears and Hannah and Christina and Aphrodite and Demeter and Affirmed and Akara and Nelly]:
Catapult (1t)
Infrastructure: Barracks, Heroic Epic, Walls

Something Fishy [size 4] [guarded by Svava]:
Forge (10t) [anger duration 5t and 15t]
Infrastructure: Granary, Library, Courthouse

Green Acres [size 5] [guarded by Robyn Hood]:
Worker (6t) [anger duration 7t]
Infrastructure: Granary, Library, Lighthouse

Mellow Yellow [size 3] [guarded by Hera]:
Forge (21t), Library (8t) [anger duration 4t]
Infrastructure: Granary

Saxon the Beach [size 3] [guarded by Betty Hur]:
Granary (13t), Moai Statues (61t)
Infrastructure: none

Non-Combat Units

Settler [Blue Barry]:
Moving to Blue dot location in north (4t)

Scout [Sharon]:
Scouting out the eastern continent

Worker [Winston]:
Chopping/Mining grassland hill north of China Beach
Chopping (3t)

Worker [Bernard]:
Build cottages at Airstrip One
Cottaging (done!)

Worker [Mustapha Mond]:
Chop/road/plantation silks at Saxon the Beach
Chopping (3t)

Worker [O'Brien]:
Chopping/Farming grassland forest south of Cape Town
Roading (3t)

Worker [Helmholtz]:
Chopping/Farming grassland forest south of Cape Town
Roading (3t)

Worker [Parsons]:
Build cottages at Pink
Cottaging (3t)

Worker [Syme]:
Road between Pink Dot and Cape Town
Moving to tile (done!)

Worker [John the Savage]:
Chop/road Something Fishy's dyes in preparation for Calendar trade
Chopping (3t)

Worker [Bob the Builder]:
Moving south to improve Mellow Yellow
Moving to tile (3t)

Worker [Serious Steve]:
Improve deer tile at Saxon the Beach
Moving to tile (2t)

Military Units

Galley [RBS Discovery]:
Patrolling the Channel

War Elephant [Nelly]:
Guard Cape Town

Maceman [Akara]:
Guard Cape Town

Axeman [Gillian]:
Guarding Cape Town (for now)
Heading to Twin Peaks eventually

Axeman [Adria]:
Guard Pink Dot

Spearman [Mariah]:
Guard Airstrip One

Spearman [Christina]:
Guard Cape Town

Spearman [Hannah]:
Guard Cape Town

Spearman [Jamie Lynn's Spears]:
Guard Cape Town

Spearman [Britney's Spears]:
Guard Pink Dot

Horse Archer [Affirmed]:
Guard Cape Town

Chariot [Betty Hur]:
Waiting to smack down barb axe in extreme north
10XP - our most heroic unit!

Chariot [Lady Godiva]:
Moving east to get intel on Imperio/Templar cities

Archer [Ms Piggy]:
Guard China Beach

Archer [Diana]:
Guard Cape Town

Archer [Billy Jean Tell]:
Exploring Imperio territory

Archer [Robyn Hood]:
Guard Green Acres

Archer [Svava]:
Guard Something Fishy

Archer [Fyre Errow]:
Guarding Cape Town (for now)
Heading to Twin Peaks eventually

Archer [Hera]:
Guard Mellow Yellow

Archer [Athena]:
Guard Pink Dot

Archer [Aphrodite]:
Guard Cape Town

Archer [Demeter]:
Guard Cape Town

Archer [Persepone]:
Guard Saxon the Beach
Currently moving to city (3t)

Warrior [Xena]:
Guard Airstrip One

Warrior [Jennifer]:
Exploring the eastern continent

Foreign Builds from C&D

Templars
Jerusalem = 10 shields (+10)
Infrastructure: Palace, Barracks
Damascus = 58 shields (+16)
Infrastructure: Terrace, Barracks
Jericho = N/A, zero shields invested
Infrastructure: Walls
Acre = 26 shields (+4)
Infrastructure: none

Jericho finished a 35-shield build... spear or axe?

Imperio
Mutal = 20 shields (-4)
Infrastructure: Palace, Barracks, Granary, Monument, Stonehenge, Oracle
Lakamha = 20 shields (-1)
Infrastructure: Barracks, Monument, Islamic shrine
Chichen Itza = 38 shields (+4)
Infrastructure: Granary, Monument, Lighthouse, Barracks
Uxmal = 40 shields (+1)
Infrastructure: Monument
Mayapan = N/A, zero shields invested
Infrastructure: Monument, Barracks
Calakmul = 43 shields (+6)
Infrastructure: Monument

Mayapan finished a 50-shield build, so cat or horse archer? mh and I have no clue what's going on with Mutal and Lakamha. Maybe they decided to stop crash-building military and go back to infrastructure (???)

PAL
The Warning = 105 shields (+24)
Infrastructure: Granary, Barracks, Lighthouse, Library, Academy
Heliopolis = 28 shields (+7)
Infrastructure: Granary
Alexandria = N/A, zero shields invested
Infrastructure: Granary, Forge
Giza = 24 shields (-)
Infrastructure: Granary, Lighthouse

Alexandria finished a forge, thanks to mh for spotting it! Also, first peek into Giza, yay!

Rabbits
Caerbannog = N/A, zero shields invested
Infrastructure: Palace, Barracks, Library, Great Wall
Digger's Burrow = N/A, zero shields invested
Infrastructure: Barracks, Monument, Granary, Walls
Phrygian = N/A, zero shields invested
Infrastructure: none

Caerbannog and Digger's Burrow likely still throwing out cheap units. Maybe Phrygian swapped a build in response to PAL military pressure?


Population census:
PAL 48 (size 10,7,6,6,6,5,4,3,1)
RB 41 (10,7,5,5,4,4,3,3)
Imp 36 (10,7,6,6,4,3)
Ban 27 (9,8,5,4,1)
Tem 23 (7,6,6,3,1)
Rab 9 (5,3,1)


Treasury report:
Templars: 62gold (-5gpt)
Imperio: 269gold (+3gpt)
PAL: 156gold (-87gpt)
Rab: 35gold (-1gpt)
Banana: 36 (-3gpt)

[mostly-harmless]

Giza = 24 shields (+24h)
Infrastructure: Granary, Lighthouse

Alexandria finished a forge, thanks to mh for spotting it! Also, first peek into Giza, yay!

Actually its the second turn we see into Giza. It was at 0hammers on T120 for the record.

mh

[sooooo]

Persephone can probably serve as a fog-buster rather than guard Saxon the beach. IMO Betty should just whack the barb axe next turn even if it is in a forest. it's still >96% odds. She can kill the barb and then head to the front line (she can still be useful against templars since they have axes).

I don't agree with Zeviz's plan to build a settler out of Green, but I do agree with some of his general points about not rigidly sticking to builds until they finish. For example cities can put hammers into forges while they grow but then whip other things. Something Fishy will be working a grass forest soon, but it's not worth whipping anything here unless it can do a 2-pop whip. By they time that it can whip 2 pop then its forge will be finished anyway. I think SF should complete its forge naturally and then build (or whip) a barracks and help with military. This is because Pink Dot will need time to fit in a library and we will need 1 city in the south on military for the most part. Green acres can whip a worker, then grow a bit while building a forge. When it is large enough then I think it can whip a settler without waiting for the forge to finish. At mellow yellow I would start Bob the Builder with some chopping to get the forge out then build a cottage and a mine on the two forests we chopped.

Need to decide on a name for blue dot too!

[T-hawk]

Imperio
Mutal = 20 shields (-4)
Infrastructure: Palace, Barracks, Granary, Monument, Stonehenge, Oracle
Lakamha = 20 shields (-1)
Infrastructure: Barracks, Monument, Islamic shrine

mh and I have no clue what's going on with Mutal and Lakamha. Maybe they decided to stop crash-building military and go back to infrastructure (???)

They are swapping build orders. We don't know what. Any time a city "loses" hammers from turn to turn without spending a turn at 0 hammers inbetween, the only possibility is a change of build. That also means that any future builds may be the continuation of a paused build, and we might never have evidence of the completion (whatever Mutal paused last turn at 24 hammers could later be completed in a single turn.)

If anything, you could include known paused items in these reports? We now know that Mutal has something paused on 24 and Lakamha has something paused on 21. Next turn, we won't be able to tell whether they continued the current build from 20 or the previous build from 24, but we can still tell if it's one of those versus yet a third build.

[sunrise089]

Regarding Pillaging: A simultaneous Templar/Imperio attack that seeks to only pillage us could certainly do some damage, but I think such an attack would be horribly wasteful for the teams considering the diplo hit and lost hammers. A much better strategy would be to simply close borders together and cut our trade routes off.

My understanding is that Templars lack basically any modern units. All we need to do is keep a decent garrison in Pink and maintain the ability to whip/ or otherwise crash build a few modern units of our own in the south and we should be fine. I don't see the need to build any more units than necessary to stop likely enemy stacks...we can go on the offensive just fine with our units (to pillage at least) after the enemy stacks are wiped out in our land.

[sooooo]

Imperio certainly have abandoned that road. I finished the chariot's movement points.



Next turn we could step in-step out to see Constantiople?

[mostly-harmless]

Don't think so, we can't see two tiles distant.

mh