Turnplayer Thread #3

[mostly-harmless]

Little update:
Rabbits founded a city (Aachen). C&D guesstimates it to claim the crabs/iron site NW of their lands.

PAL must have paid some money to Imperio to even out the tech deal (~120) as their treasury only shows 40gold left. But they can now run 105gpt!!!

mh

[Zeviz]

My panic at the idea of Imperio's maces might have been somewhat exessive, but we do need contact with Bananas. Is it possible that Templars sold Metal Casting to Bananas, who bulbed Machinery with their engineer? If that is the case, we'll have to research Metal Casting ourselves before we can attempt to trade for Machinery, so there is plenty of time to contact Bananas.

EDIT: I wouldn't sell Marble to PAL, until we really need that extra happiness. (And by then we'll have an option of using MP, so happiness will be less of an issue.)

[Sullla]

My panic at the idea of Imperio's maces might have been somewhat exessive, but we do need contact with Bananas. Is it possible that Templars sold Metal Casting to Bananas, who bulbed Machinery with their engineer? If that is the case, we'll have to research Metal Casting ourselves before we can attempt to trade for Machinery, so there is plenty of time to contact Bananas.

The exchange went down like this:

T104: Templars trade Metal Casting to Banana for Alphabet
T106: Banana pops a Great Engineer (from Pyramids), which they burn on Machinery
T107: Templars trade a Classical tech to Banana for Machinery

I'm going to suggest that we start leaning hard on Templars again for some kind of cooperation. Our teams can help each other out technologically if we work together... and if they will actually agree to respond to our emails! The ideal situation would be:

- Trade Aesthetics/Literature to Templars for Metal Casting
- Meet Banana
- Trade Aesthetics/Literature/Horseback Riding to Imperio for Machinery

That would give us maces and security against any pending Imperio military threat. We could quickly have maces, elephants, cats, and horse archers, and they wouldn't be getting through that any time soon! But obtaining Metal Casting from Templars is a big bottleneck, one we have to try to negotiate. We absolutely CANNOT waste more time researching techs that every other team already has traded for!

I'm going to work on the turn writeup now.

[Sullla]

Here we go for T109:

- The big international news was PAL trading Civil Service to Imperio in return for Currency. This has catapulted their teams even further ahead of the pack, and getting close to runaway territory (if not already there). I suggest that our best response is trying to cozy up to Templars, because the current situation is not working for us.

- Domestically, we had some very good news though. The discovery of Monarchy last turn meant that we could finally hook up our first happy resource this turn. Wines all around!



We had no less than three different cities that had grown into unhappiness, so the wines were a gigantic help in that regard. Airstrip One picked up a 4-commerce winery, China Beach sent another Scientist back to work, and so on. (In fact, Airstrip One is about to grow to size 7 next turn, and pick up ANOTHER grassland river cottage, sweet! This is why we need PAL's ivory.)

- Our gang of three workers is now heading south, to the wines outside Green Acres. This will give the city another strong tile to work, plus allow us to send a wine resource overseas to another civ to boost diplomatic relations. (We may also want to think about founding that "Burgundy" city soon, which can be at least a subpar production city by working the two extra wines in that area.)

- Also good news: Betty Hur killed the axe that was threatening Airstrip One without breaking a sweat! She is at 3.5/4 health. And, since Saxon grew to size 2, we will shortly be adding an 8th city (and stone!) to our lovely civilization. Just cross your fingers that Saxon doesn't pop out an archer in the next two turns...

Now, the south:



We are getting some nice infrastructure builds done here. Pink is nearly done Granary (and about to grow again), Something Fishy is close to finishing its Library, and even Mellow Yellow will be able to whip its Granary in 3 more turns. So long as Templars don't attack us in the near future, this area is looking really good.

- Workers: John (in white) is chopping/cottaging the forest tile southeast of Pink. After finishing, I plan on having him do the same thing one tile north, also a forest grassland river tile. John is thus simultaneously improving our economy, and stripping defensive cover away from possible invaders. I gave him the "cottage + chop" mission (7t) rather than just chopping so that the forest cutting will be delayed until after we have Math. Gotta get those extra shields.

Parsons (in pink) is clearing and cottaging the tile east of Something Fishy for pretty much the exact same reason. Economy and invasion security. (Side note: Moai Statue here after finishing library? Maybe slip in a very cheap (whipped) courthouse first? We'll have stone connected very soon, and this is a perfect spot for the Moai national wonder.)

Syme (in yellow) is getting ready to improve Mellow Yellow. I would like to have him build a road on the current tile first, then... what? Cut/cottage the current jungle tile? Chop/mine the plains hill tile? You tell me! I could go either way.

- Cape Town finished Heroic Epic this turn! mostly_harmless set the city to a spearman. Any other opinions on this? sunrise, what would you suggest we build as the best defense here? We currently have axe, spear, and two archers. We can build 1-turn units here no problem, so long as we mix in an occasional archer.

- Revealed Imperio's city of Mayapan, right where mh said it would be. We can now get intelligence on 5/6 of their cities.

- Green Acres started library after its whipped granary finished. I think it's pretty obvious that this is the best choice, unless for some reason someone wanted to make an argument for lighthouse (?)

That about covers it! Now for the stats...

[sunrise089]

Spear seems good for now Sullla. Let's consider our units:

-Archer - Can attack: Nothing. Can defend against: Axe, Spear, Catapult.

-Axe - Can attack: Axe, Spear, Catapult. Can defend against: Axe, Spear, Catapult.

-Spear - Can attack: Horse Archer, Elephant. Can defend against: Horse Archer, Elephant.

So archers can defend the city as well as axes, for fewer hammers. Therefore if we expect to defend (which we more or less do before cats) we need about an equal number of spears and axes/archers. Axes are the only unit that can really attack out of the city at a mixed stack, but that's still a loosing game since it only takes a single longbow or elephant to ruin that plan. So I would probably create a build queue of Spear->Axeman->Spear->Archer->Repeat. This will give us enough defenders to alt-build cats in Cape Town once construction is in and alt-build horse archers in every other city that can spare a military build.

[mostly-harmless]

Keep in mind we might need to defend our horses & copper outside the city. Turtling up in Cape Town will loose us our two strategic resources.

mh

[Sullla]

Oh, by the way, if someone wants to run the numbers on the optimal research percentage for Math, be my guest. When not doing our "phony" research into Drama to throw off Imperio, our numbers are:

Mathematics (79/357 beakers), 24g in Treasury
100%: 96 [133] beakers/turn @ -31gpt
90%: 87 [121] beakers/turn @ -24gpt
80%: 79 [110] beakers/turn @ -17gpt
70%: 71 [98] beakers/turn @ -10gpt
60%: 63 [87] beakers/turn @ -3gpt
50%: 55 [76] beakers/turn @ +4gpt
0%: 15 [21] beakers/turn @ +40gpt

As always, numbers subject to change with growth. Not running the numbers, I was going to go something like 60/60/70 percent, which should get us Math in 3 turns. It's worth it to push at a deficit and get this one in 3 turns, so we can get into Bureaucracy civic faster!

Now, on to the stats:

General

Current Turn:
Turn 109 - 150 BC
Turn Timer expires at approx (UTC)

Active Turn Player:
Sullla

Tech:
Mathematics (3t)
60% research (63 [87] beakers/turn) @ -3gpt
79/357 beakers overall

Gold
24g in treasury

Cities

Airstrip One [size 6] [guarded by Xena]:
Spearman (7t)
Infrastructure: Palace, Granary, Barracks, Library, Great Library
Emphasizing food and commerce

Pink Dot [size 5] [guarded by Britney's Spears and Adria and Athena]:
Granary (3t)
Infrastructure: Barracks

China Beach [size 5] [guarded by Ms Piggy]:
Barracks (6t)
Infrastructure: Granary, Library
Great Scientist 69/100, +3 GPP/turn, due in 6t

Cape Town [size 4] [guarded by Diana and Gillian and Jamie Lynn's Spears and Fyre Errow]:
Spearman (1t)
Infrastructure: Barracks, Heroic Epic

Something Fishy [size 4] [guarded by Svava]:
Library (2t) [anger duration 5t]
Infrastructure: Granary

Green Acres [size 2] [guarded by Robyn Hood]:
Library (26t) [anger duration 9t]
Infrastructure: Granary

Mellow Yellow [size 1] [guarded by Hera]:
Granary (32t)
Infrastructure: none

Non-Combat Units

Scout [Sharon]:
Scouting out the eastern continent

Worker [Winston]:
Build winery (done!)

Worker [O'Brien]:
Building road connection to Twin Peaks
Current tile: moving (done!)

Worker [Bernard]:
Moving to next wines resource (2t)

Worker [Helmholtz]:
Build winery (done!)

Worker [Parsons]:
Clear/cottage jungle tile east of Something Fishy
Clearing (3t)

Worker [Syme]:
Connect Mellow Yellow to road network
Moving to tile (done!)

Worker [John the Savage]:
Chop/cottage river forest tile SE of Pink Dot
Chopping/cottaging (7t)

Military Units

Galley [RBS Discovery]:
Exploring the eastern continent

Axeman [Gillian]:
Guarding Cape Town (for now)
Heading to Twin Peaks eventually

Axeman [Adria]:
Guard Pink Dot

Spearman [Jamie Lynn's Spears]:
Guarding Cape Town (for now)
Heading to Twin Peaks eventually

Spearman [Britney's Spears]:
Guard Pink Dot

Chariot [Betty Hur]:
Moving to capture barb city of Saxon (2t)
10XP - our most heroic unit!

Chariot [Lady Godiva]:
Moving east to get intel on Imperio/Templar cities

Archer [Ms Piggy]:
Guard China Beach

Archer [Diana]:
Guard Cape Town

Archer [Billy Jean Tell]:
Exploring Imperio territory

Archer [Robyn Hood]:
Guard Green Acres

Archer [Svava]:
Guard Something Fishy

Archer [Fyre Errow]:
Guarding Cape Town (for now)
Heading to Twin Peaks eventually

Archer [Hera]:
Guard Mellow Yellow

Archer [Athena]:
Guard Pink Dot

Warrior [Xena]:
Guard Airstrip One

Warrior [Jennifer]:
Exploring the eastern continent

Foreign Builds from C&D

Templars
Jerusalem = (287 * (148 + 100)) / (3 * 565) = 42 shields (+9)
Infrastructure: Palace, Barracks
Jericho = (98 * (148 + 100)) / (3 * 540) = 20 shields (+5)
Infrastructure: Walls

Little of note here at the moment - yet again.

Imperio
Mutal = (184 * (188 + 100)) / (3 * 679) = 26 shields (+13)
Infrastructure: Palace, Barracks, Granary, Monument, Stonehenge, Oracle
Lakamha = (232 * (188 + 100)) / (3 * 696) = 32 shields (+17)
Infrastructure: Barracks, Monument, Islamic shrine
Chichen Itza = N/A, zero shields invested
Infrastructure: Granary, Monument, Lighthouse, Barracks
Uxmal = (96 * (188 + 100)) / (3 * 714) = 13 shields (+5)
Infrastructure: Monument
Mayapan = (197 * (188 + 100)) / (3 * 702) = 27 shields (-)
Infrastructure: Monument, Barracks

Imperio still cranking up the Espionage slider, 13 more EP invested against us. I wish we had that kind of commerce to waste...

Chichen Itza built a barracks. Plus, their new city of Mayapan has a barracks as well. Hmmm, lots of Imperio cities building barracks, I don't think this is a good sign!


PAL
Heliopolis = (75 * (38 + 100)) / (3 * 289) = 12 shields (+12)
Infrastructure: Granary

Little to say here.

Rabbits
Caerbannog = (79 * (37 + 100)) / (3 * 405) = 9 shields (-1)
Infrastructure: Palace, Barracks, Library, Great Wall
Digger's Burrow = (126 * (37 + 100)) / (3 * 386) = 15 shields (+15)
Infrastructure: Barracks, Monument

Looks like Rabbits changed their mind on a build at Caerbannog and started over from scratch. Digger's Burrow gets 13 shields/turn, so we know from inference that they built either a spear or axe last turn. Hopefully Sharon will track down their new (third) city soon.

Updated population census:
PAL 34 (size 9,6,5,4,3,3,2,2) (updated after whip)
RB 27 (6,5,5,4,4,2,1)
Imp 27 (10,6,4,4,2,1)
Ban 22 (8,7,4,3)
Tem 15 (5,4,4,2)
Rab 9 (4,4,1) (updated after new city)

Treasury report:
Templars: 97gold (+-0gpt)
Imperio: 203 (+8gpt) Confirmed by trade screen!
PAL: 160gold (+74gpt) back to 0% research This is updated to 40 gold in treasurey (apparently they paid some cash in the tech trade with Imperio and with the Bureaucracy at The Warning they can run +105gpt!!!)

Rab: 12gold (+-0gpt)

[Dreylin]

Something Fishy is definitely our best (current) city for Moai with 10 water tiles - next best is 8, but with less coast - but it's not worth building until we at least have a lighthouse there!

On another note, what is our timeframe for settling Silk Town in the North? Calendar has to be high on our list of tech priorities, and we'll want to be able to hook them up ASAP once we get it!

What's the build-time like for a Settler out of Green Acres?

[regoarrarr]

60 / 60 / 70 nets us 272 beakers at -16 gold

0 / 100 / 100 nets us 287 beakers at -22 gold.

It seems we are 278 beakers shy of math, so I would recommend the latter

[sunrise089]

Right, 0/100/100 seems best for me.

@M_H - Defending resources probably just isn't a luxury we have if we face Maces and Jumbos. Even one or two of each is more or less impossible to defend against in the open on flat land. But why would Imperio really both pillaging us? If it's in preparation of taking Cape Town, it delays the attack to what? Keep us from slaving a single additional resource unit? And if it's to NOT take the city but to keep the improvements from being hooked up...well it's going to cost them a lot of maintenance to just sit their stack on our resource. No matter what, I don't see any Imperio play that doesn't henge on taking the city itself.

[Swiss Pauli]

Why didn't we whip the granary in Pink? It looks to me like it's due to complete in 3, and grow on the same turn which is poor timing.

As to Maoi, I think Saxon is a better choice than SF. The latter has plenty of cottageable (is that a word?) grasslands which won't be worked if we build Maoi there. Saxon, however, has plenty of tundra (but a couple of grass hills to mine to build Maoi). The opportunity cost of Saxon is that Maoi will come on line later, but I think it's worth it.

[Dreylin]

@SP, I see what you're saying on Moai, but I still disagree. SF does have 4grassland (5 if you cottage the Dyes) to Saxon's 1, however it also has the potential to be our main Naval pump with 3 grass-mines, Marble & Moai powering it. Add to that, it is at the opposite corner of the empire from our military pump, and probably on the frontlines for ocean travel post-Astronomy.

I guess it's really a question of whether we want to make a poor city into a tolerable one, or a good city into an excellent one....?

[sooooo]

I agree with Swiss here. With Maoi, I doubt SF would even want to work the 2/1/2 coast until it is very large, when it could be working mines and cottages instead. Maoi should go to a northern tundra coastal city IMO.

[sunrise089]

I actually lean towards Dreylin's view, only because I think this game will have lots of later-game naval action. I know in Industrial and later MP games (well, Modern MP isn't normally played on an ocean map) there are ships everywhere. Couple that with the fact that we just won't have as large of defensive garrisons in this game as an always war MP affair, and naval superiority may be really important down the road. Does anything say SF can't work cottages now and switch over to a naval pump emphasizing production when Astronomy is in?

[Swiss Pauli]

@SP, I see what you're saying on Moai, but I still disagree. SF does have 4grassland (5 if you cottage the Dyes) to Saxon's 1, however it also has the potential to be our main Naval pump with 3 grass-mines, Marble & Moai powering it. Add to that, it is at the opposite corner of the empire from our military pump, and probably on the frontlines for ocean travel post-Astronomy.

I guess it's really a question of whether we want to make a poor city into a tolerable one, or a good city into an excellent one....?

I'm still for Saxon: Maoi has the potential to make a fishing village into a decent city. We're only talking one hammer per water tile, so unless production multipliers are involved it'll be wasted on SF which will rather be working hills or commerce tiles until the late game (factories and power).