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Call To Power 2 Cradle 3+ mod in progress: https://apolyton.net/forum/other-games/call-to-power-2/ctp2-creation/9437883-making-cradle-3-fully-compatible-with-the-apolyton-edition
I was thinking that as well. Betty Hur can slip past Templars borders via Calakmul to arrive at the south easter corner. There is still a sign there for Pals 3rd city and there is definitely a city there as a fish resource is hooked up. There is a slight chance that this is actually a Banana city.
Here are some quick highlights from T105. I haven't had time to do all the stats just yet; that's what takes all the time. (Moving units takes like 2 minutes, then I spend 90 minutes doing all the calculations.)
- Airstrip One knocks out its last prechop, and is due to finish the Great Library next turn!
We even have enough shields extra to work one of the cottage tiles this turn, for some desperately needed commerce. Barring a horrendous disaster of some sort, the wonder is ours.
- Look at the science output in the screenshot above. Obviously, we can't run 100% science this turn. How do you think we should play this? Keep in mind that we will get a significant boost in science next turn from Airstrip One finishing Great Library and swapping back to all-commerce configuration.
We can still complete Monarchy in 2 turns if we pull in additional research from other cities, most likely by having Pink build Research. If we don't want to do that, then what's the most effective way to get the tech in 3 turns?
- On a related note, Pink finished a worker this turn. I have set it to build Archer next at the moment, since Pink doesn't have an archer for itself at the moment. This can be changed as desired. Let me know if we want to build a different unit, or if we decide to go with Research in order to get to Monarchy faster.
I should also mention that Christianity spread into Pink this turn, so we now have two religions to play around with as desired.
- Something Fishy finished its whipped granary, and started library, as per the team consensus. It will grow back to size 3 next turn (!) Fast bugger.
- Overseas, we've found the Rabbits capital, Caerbannon:
Unfortunately, we still need one more turn before we can see the Rabbits' Demographics.
- PAL swapped to Confucianism, and paired that with a civics change to Organized Religion and Slavery. (Nice to be Spiritual there!) Templars also swapped to Hereditary Rule, but spent a turn in Anarchy to do it.
- mh, you're going to have to help me with some of the score increases, because I have no idea where PAL got some of their points this turn!
That should be all, although I'll let the team know if anything interesting comes up in the stats when I run them later.
I agree with an archer in pink. Maybe we should run 0% research this turn and then whatever the highest percentage we can next turn when we go back into commerce mode?
- Went with 0% science this turn, as that seemed to be the general consensus.
- I forgot to mention that we had a new worker this turn! My mistake there. I paired him up with one of the existing workers, as there was no time for discussion before the turn ended. We will have a larger discussion on how to manage the workers in the south next turn. (With me adding some screenshots and suggestions.)
Otherwise, I ended our turn with about nine hours left. Here were the stats:
General
Current Turn:
Turn 105 - 250 BC
Turn Timer expires at approx (UTC)
Airstrip One [size 5] [guarded by Xena]:
Great Library (1t)
Infrastructure: Palace, Granary, Barracks, Library
Pushing max shields at food deficit to get wonder!
Pink Dot [size 4] [guarded by Britney's Spears and Adria]:
Archer (2t)
Infrastructure: Barracks
China Beach [size 4] [guarded by Ms Piggy]:
Barracks (10t)
Infrastructure: Granary, Library
Great Scientist 48/100, +6 GPP/turn, due in 9t
Cape Town [size 4] [guarded by Diana and Gillian and Jamie Lynn's Spears and Fyre Errow]:
Heroic Epic (4t)
Infrastructure: Barracks
Lakamha is a shield monster, even allowing for some overflow from previous build. To be expected of a spot with irrigated corn AND wheat, plus horses, stone, gold, and another four plains hill tiles...
Now we have full info on Rabbits. Not sure how useful it may be, but we have it!
Impossible to say what Rabbits just built, since we don't know how many shields they were getting per turn. They almost certainly built something costing 30-35 shields, however, which likely means another axe/spear/chariot.
Ladies and gentlemen, may I present to you... the Great Library!
And a very, very nice increase in commerce resulting from our swap back to normal configuration at Airstrip One.
I have some time off today (a blizzard has snowed in much of London), so I should be able to do some number-crunching later. We have 100+ turns of Rabbit demographics to go through...
By the way, moving our scout this turn revealed that Rabbits have a fish resource and multiple whales at their capital, not to mention the plains cattle and stone hill. If this team screwed up, it definitely wasn't due to a poor start. Comparing Airstrip One to these other capitals, it's sadly more and more obvious how badly we were hosed. In what world does a single cattle tile equate to multiple food and production resources?!
Part one of what is going to have to be a very long turn report... I'll start with the domestic stuff, and mix in the stats for a city-by-city breakdown of our civ.
- We start by turning back on research at max rate. We will complete Monarchy in 2 turns, and have wines hooked up in 3t.
Airstrip One [size 5] [guarded by Xena]:
Spy? (14t)
Infrastructure: Palace, Granary, Barracks, Library, Great Library
Emphasizing food and commerce
Comments: Airstrip One just finished the Great Library, in a triumph of team planning and organization. Now, we desperately need to improve our research, so the city should focus on growing and working cottages for the time being. I have tentatively suggested a spy for the next build; with the wines hooked up, Airstrip One will pick up another shield and finish it in roughly 11 turns. That will give us a chance to move it over to Cape Town and reach the destination around T120.
We can also build a standard military unit here, if desired. Chariot would likely be the best option in that case, for movement reasons. I do think we should be a spy SOMEWHERE for sticking in Cape Town, and Airstrip One or Pink Dot are the two best candidates.
Pink Dot [size 4] [guarded by Britney's Spears and Adria]:
Archer (1t)
Infrastructure: Barracks
Pink is working on military for us right now, first an archer to defend itself then likely some more units for Cape Town (chariots?) I would really like to build a courthouse and granary here, but I think safety comes first. We will also have to leave a fair sized garrison (4-5 units at minimum) here in case Templars come after us as well as Imperio. We are also currently growing the city into unhappiness, so it can work additional tiles (like the hill one being mined by our workers) as soon as wines are connected.
Long-term, we'd like to put some cottages here. Pink kind of has to emphasize shields at the moment though, at least until the impending crisis is passed.
China Beach [size 4] [guarded by Ms Piggy]:
Barracks (9t)
Infrastructure: Granary, Library
Great Scientist 54/100, +6 GPP/turn, due in 8t
Another city waiting desperately for more food. It can't grow into unhappiness because of the two Scientist specialists - growing to size 5 will make the city starve! China Beach will really take off once we get another happy face here, plus finish up our Great Scientist and can start working more cottages. (Whipped lighthouse/courthouse in the pipeline soon?)
Cape Town [size 4] [guarded by Diana and Gillian and Jamie Lynn's Spears and Fyre Errow]:
Heroic Epic (3t)
Infrastructure: Barracks
Preparing for the impending storm we expect to come from Imperio. Cape Town can build 10 units in 10 turns (by mixing in some cheaper archers) once we finish Heroic Epic, and that's exactly what I suggest we do! Unit maintenance will be a killer, but what can you do?
I'd also like to build city walls here if we get access to stone, which means if stupid Saxon ever grows to size 2!
One of our more prosperous new colonies. We definitely want to get some cottages going here soon. (See post on worker actions/unit movements, which will follow.) In terms of builds, I think courthouse is probably next after library, then possibly settler (after the city has grown to happy cap)?
Green Acres [size 3] [guarded by Robyn Hood]:
Granary (16t)
Infrastructure: none
Still getting started. We obviously have a granary whip coming, then likely library next, followed by courthouse and lighthouse in some order. All cheap buildings aside from the granary. Green Acres will also benefit from having the wine tile connected imminently as well (the forest tile on the right side; sorry, I should have turned on the resource pointer!) I forsee cottages and some Scientist specialists here in the future, plus potentially squeezing out some workers. Good long-term potential.
Still getting started. Work boat arrives in 3 more turns, back from scouting the Templar border. Running the plains hill tile now allows us to whip the granary as soon as Mellow Yellow grows to size 2; pretty nice city management suggestion from one of our team members. Expands borders next turn.
Long-term, lots of cottages in the jungle plus connecting the dyes post-Calendar.
Scout [Sharon]:
Scouting out the eastern continent
Worker [Winston]:
Build road on wines resource (2t)
Worker [O'Brien]:
Building road connection to Twin Peaks
Current tile (done!)
Worker [Bernard]:
Build road connection to Saxon
Roading (done!)
Worker [Helmholtz]:
Build road connection to Saxon
Roading (done!)
First the workers in the north. O'Brien is the easiest, as he is about halfway done building the road connection over from Cape Town. After finishing, he will probably stay in the area around the capital, due to the unsafe situation we expect to develop over near the Cape. No tiles to improve over there either.
The other three workers (Winston, Bernard, Helmholtz) are essentially waiting another turn for Monarchy to be discovered, so that we can immediately hook up Airstrip One's wines (in orange). I will have them build road connection busywork for one more turn, then they hook up the wines, then immediately head south to hook up the other wines outside Green Acres (in blue). We need that second wine to trade to PAL for ivory or gems. Afterwards, they can split up and go their separate ways. Probably one worker for Airstrip One, one for China Beach, and two to develop Green Acres? Something like that?
Now for the undeveloped south:
Worker [Parsons]:
Mine grassland hill NW of Something Fishy
Roading (done!)
Worker [Syme]:
Chop/mine/road grassland hill near Pink Dot
Mining (2t)
Worker [John the Savage]:
Chop/mine/road grassland hill near Pink Dot
Mining (2t)
Work Boat:
Returning to Mellow Yellow (4t)
Parsons (in purple) is completely finished his job of improving the grassland hill. He can go wherever we want next turn - please direct him! Do we want cottages at Something Fishy, a road connection to Mellow Yellow, chop/mining the plains hill at Mellow - what? Plenty of options.
The other two workers (in red) will shortly be done their mining task as well. Whither shall they go? In short, I'd like to see us talk out our plan of development here in the south. What is the best way to improve these cities, both short and long term?
Military Units
Galley [RBS Discovery]:
Exploring the eastern continent
Axeman [Gillian]:
Guarding Cape Town (for now)
Heading to Twin Peaks eventually
Axeman [Adria]:
Guard Pink Dot
Spearman [Jamie Lynn's Spears]:
Guarding Cape Town (for now)
Heading to Twin Peaks eventually
Spearman [Britney's Spears]:
Guard Pink Dot
Chariot [Betty Hur]:
Waiting to capture barb city of Saxon at size 2 10XP - our most heroic unit!
Chariot [Lady Godiva]:
Moving east to get intel on Imperio/Templar cities
Archer [Ms Piggy]:
Guard China Beach
Archer [Diana]:
Guard Cape Town
Archer [Billy Jean Tell]:
Move to explore Imperio territory
Archer [Robyn Hood]:
Guard Green Acres
Archer [Svava]:
Guard Something Fishy
Archer [Fyre Errow]:
Guarding Cape Town (for now)
Heading to Twin Peaks eventually
Archer [Bowazon]:
Guard Mellow Yellow
Warrior [Xena]:
Guard Airstrip One
Warrior [Jennifer]:
Exploring the eastern continent
Here are some probable attack movements against us. I'm reasonably confident that we can fight Imperio to a draw at Cape Town, so long as they actually wait until T120 to hit us. With Heroic Epic, we'll be able to stand up units REALLY fast there. And Imperio pretty much has to attack at Cape Town, if they're going to attack at all. The blue arrows demonstrate this. (We will have to keep one unit, probably Billy Jean Tell the archer, on watch to make sure Imperio doesn't try to sneak attack through Templar borders. But I rate that as unlikely, partly because I don't think Templars would let them move through their territory, partly because I don't think Imperio is that smart.)
Templars will likely come at Pink Dot if they attack at all (and hopefully they won't!) I drew the heavy yellow lines to illustrate this. Trying to strike at Something Fishy would be waste of time, because we can easily reinforce from Pink Dot in the amount of time they take to walk all the way down there. And with only a single coastal city, a boating attack from Jerusalem seems exceedingly unlikely to come from Templars.
What worries me is the red arrow. If Templars move their main army directly towards our capital from Jericho, there's not a whole lot we could do to stop them from taking the place - and currently, we have a worker building roads in neutral territory that would serve as a welcome mat! Again, this is assuming Templars and Imperio both attack. Templars alone, we could reinforce from Cape Town in time. We really do need at least one, preferably two, galleys in the Fjord to avert this potential fate. Not sure we can afford to build them right now, however...
One piece of good news here. Airstrip One expands borders to 500 culture in two more turns, which will cut down on the neutral territory near our capital and give us a buffer. This is still our one gaping weak point, however; a quick strike with chariots here could really do massive damage. Maybe get a spear in Airstrip One just in case? (That way we could whip a second one, and deal with up to 4-5 chariots relatively easy.)
Anyway, just some thoughts here. sunrise, you're the one to give us pointers on military stuff against humans. Let us know if you have any recommendations here.
All the builds looks good Sullla. I'm not sold on the usefulness of the Spy, but the capital is currently in a low-hammer configuration so the Spy isn't costing us much. I would probably advise against chariots - the 2-move flexibility is nice and obviously they have the axe bonus, but if we plan to face elephants 2-movers who cannot flank are a risky proposition. I'd much rather build spears now that won't go obsolete soon, cats when we get construction, and then HAs when we get HBR.
On the issue of Imperio's possible plan to incite a city revolt in Cape Town, I don't think they will be as successful as they hope. If they bring no cats (which is part of the reason to emphasize espionage) even with 0% culture their units will still be facing our optimal defenders, and their jumbos will fair poorly versus our fortified spears. On the other hand, if they bring cats that implies their attack takes longer to develop, and in that case I suspect we'll have cats of our own. If that's true as soon as the turn time ticks over with their units adjacent to our city we should cat the stack and then hit it with our defenders. We can more or less guarantee we'll get the first move in if they have to trigger the Spy action. Either way, I don't see it as a huge threat.
EDIT: Sullla - I don't see any pics in the above post. Are you still uploading them? The above comments were cross-posted with Sullla's second post, so I'll add more thoughts once I see the pics.
Last edited by sunrise089; February 2, 2009, 14:18.
Without being able to see your attack maps, but with the city views, I'd say that the South needs some defensive forest-clearing in the near future - particularly around Pink
Good point about being able to see small maps in the city shots Dreylin. I would say the top worker priority is chopping the forest adjacent to the Cape city.
I paired him up with one of the existing workers, as there was no time for discussion before the turn ended. We will have a larger discussion on how to manage the workers in the south next turn. (With me adding some screenshots and suggestions.)
Now, we desperately need to improve our research, so the city should focus on growing and working cottages for the time being. I have tentatively suggested a spy for the next build; with the wines hooked up, Airstrip One will pick up another shield and finish it in roughly 11 turns. That will give us a chance to move it over to Cape Town and reach the destination around T120.
Green Acres will also benefit from having the wine tile connected imminently as well (the forest tile on the right side; sorry, I should have turned on the resource pointer!) I forsee cottages and some Scientist specialists here in the future, plus potentially squeezing out some workers. Good long-term potential.
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