Turnplayer Thread #3

[mostly-harmless]

Feudalism would take ages. Around 23 turns at current GNP!

Bringing back the galley to Cape Town would take 20 turns. I think it makes more sense for the galley to keep on exploring south through the Channel.

From C&D:
Treasury report:
Templars: 106gold (-6gpt)
Imperio: 169gold (+14gpt)
PAL: 326gold (+62gpt) clearly running 0% science

And I think I nailed the spot of Imperios latest city. It is located 1S 3SE of Lakamha, on the coast of the Channel, directly opposite The Warning (PALS capital) (head over to the ancient screenshot thread to check). Basically it is a very ambitious spot. It has free access to Corn, but that's it. It has to battle for the Cows with Damaskus (wresting it from Templars 1st ring will take considerable effort. And they can in theory battle for The Warning's fish, which sits in both cities 2nd ring (again it will take some cultural effort to do that.)

As a first step against the perceived threat from Imperio I think it is good to place a scouting unit (a 0XP expendable archer) 1S of Chichen Itza or on the hill between Chichen Itza and Mutal, to spot any incoming stacks and to send a clear signal to Imperio that we are aware of their doings.

mh

[Sullla]

Here we go for T103:

- Imperio was the featured civ in the news this turn. They first researched Horseback Riding (in 5 turns, I might add) and then went ahead and settled their sixth city, Calakmul. mh suspects it's on the eastern coast, which seems likely given that the settler was built at Lakamha. One of our chariots, Lady Godiva, is moving towards Imperio now to scout out the location of their missing two cities... and get us line of sight into them so we can run C&D calculation on their builds each turn.

How do we respond to Imperio? Discussion should take place over in the Imperio diplo threat. At a minimum, we need to make some kind of reply. One thing we could potentially do is float a suggestion of teaming up to destroy Templars past them. (Better than them attack us, right?) I would also suggest that we send PAL an email and try to get them to cancel the ivory trade with Imperio. (Just tell PAL to make a gems/gold exchange instead of ivory/gold. They have an excess gems resource they aren't doing anything with.)

But like I said, the real discussion of this should take place in the Imperio/PAL diplo threads.

- More map info from the eastern continent:



First of all, our galley was indeed blocked in the extreme north and had to turn back. We'll have it slowly return and scout out the Channel between the two continents. On the mainland, Jennifer discovered that PAL is in possession of quad ivories. That's.... yeah. Thanks again, map maker. On the plus side, maybe we can get PAL to trade us ivory for our wines once they're connected. Worth a shot, right?

Because PAL still hasn't given us consent to go through their borders, Sharon will go off and reveal the two Rabbit cities to the northeast. Jennifer can snoop around Heliopolis and head over to meet Banana, if we get the thumbsup from PAL. (We don't exactly want to irritate PAL right now, as they are the only civ interested in making any kind of trade with us!)

- Work boat in the south revealed ANOTHER clams before turning back to the west (due for Mellow Yellow in about six more turns). There is no two ways around this, Templars are morons for not settling here. Rice, stone, bananas, and two clams. Yeah, it's got jungle, but come on! They've had Iron Working for like 40 turns now! What the heck is this team doing?!?!

- I had to turn on "Avoid Growth" at China Beach. Because it's running specialists, allowing the city to grow to size 5 next turn will just result in starvation, which is counterproductive. It can start growing again immediately when we hook up wines or enter Hereditary Rule.

- To whip or not to whip at Something Fishy:



We have a mine being built on the yellow grassland hill tile, FYI. What is the best way to do this, whipping math experts? My tentative thought is to let the granary finish naturally and then whip a courthouse, but there could be a much better way to do things. I think we can agree that granary/courthouse should be the next two builds here in some capacity. Maybe a library after that (?) Or another settler out of here at some point (?)

- Still waiting at Saxon. I would say to just raze and replace now, except that we're short on settlers at the moment.

- Great Library on track, due in 3 turns in Airstrip One. Might be a good idea to seal our Civil Service deal with PAL and send them Aesthetics/Literature BEFORE we build the Library - they don't know how close we are to finishing it!

Stats coming a little later tonight.

[T-hawk]

My instinct says to whip the granary at Something Fishy. The key point is that the sweet spot to whip a granary is when the food box is half full, as it is right now (or one turn from now.) Without the whip, we'll finish the granary 1-2 turns after growth, which essentially wastes the granary for several turns as it essentially doesn't do anything until the food box is half full. (more accurately, a granary's internal food storage only needs half a growth cycle to fill up.)

Rough numbers, without a whip:
Grow to 4 on T106, food box empty
Granary finishes T107, city now working 9H
Grow to 5 on T112, food box half full, 45H in box

With a whip on T104:
T104: Granary completes, city size 2, working 3H
Grow to 3 on T106, food box half full, 6H in box, now working 6H
Grow to 4 on T109, food box half full, 24H in box, now working 9H
Grow to 5 on T112, food box half full, 51H in box

Both paths get to size 5 at the same time, but whipping the granary gives slightly more hammers by then. Whipping sooner also starts the anger clock sooner.

Also, I'm not convinced on a courthouse next to save only 2-3 gpt maintenance. Given indications with Imperio, we may need emergency military whips out of here or anywhere, and an earlier granary puts the city in better position for that.

[Sullla]

Here was the data from T103:

General

Current Turn:
Turn 103 - 300 BC
Turn Timer expires at approx (UTC)

Active Turn Player:
Sullla

Status:
Played

Tech:
Monarchy (4t)
100% research (65 [100] beakers/turn) @ -28gpt
52/429 beakers overall

Gold
79g in treasury

Cities

Airstrip One [size 5] [guarded by Xena]:
Great Library (5t) [true: 3t]
Infrastructure: Palace, Granary, Barracks, Library
Pushing max shields at food deficit to get wonder!

Pink Dot [size 4] [guarded by Britney's Spears and Adria]:
Worker (3t)
Infrastructure: Barracks

China Beach [size 4] [guarded by Ms Piggy]:
Barracks (45t)
Infrastructure: Granary, Library
Great Scientist 36/100, +6 GPP/turn, due in 11t

Cape Town [size 3] [guarded by Diana and Billy Jean Tell and Gillian and Jamie Lynn's Spears and Fyre Errow]:
Heroic Epic (8t)
Infrastructure: Barracks

Something Fishy [size 3] [guarded by Svava]:
Granary (6t)
Infrastructure: none

Green Acres [size 2] [guarded by Robyn Hood]:
Granary (52t)
Infrastructure: none

Mellow Yellow [size 1] [unguarded!]:
Gramary (14t)
Infrastructure: none

Non-Combat Units

Scout [Sharon]:
Scouting out the eastern continent

Worker [Winston]:
Building a connecting road tile (done!)

Worker [O'Brien]:
Building road connection to Twin Peaks
Current tile (done!)

Worker [Parsons]:
Mine grassland hill NW of Something Fishy
Mining (2t)

Worker [Syme]:
Chop/mine/road grassland hill W of Pink Dot
Chop (2t)

Worker [Bernard]:
Building additional cottages at Airstrip One
Cottaging (2t)

Worker [Helmholtz]:
Building additional cottages at Airstrip One
Cottagin (2t)

Work Boat:
Exploring unrevealed tiles in south near Templar border

Military Units

Galley [RBS Discovery]:
Exploring the eastern continent

Axeman [Gillian]:
Guarding Cape Town (for now)
Heading to Twin Peaks eventually

Axeman [Adria]:
Guard Pink Dot

Spearman [Jamie Lynn's Spears]:
Guarding Cape Town (for now)
Heading to Twin Peaks eventually

Spearman [Britney's Spears]:
Guard Pink Dot

Chariot [Betty Hur]:
Healing and waiting to capture barb city of Saxon at size 2
10XP - our most heroic unit!

Chariot [Lady Godiva]:
Moving east to get intel on Imperio/Templar cities

Archer [Ms Piggy]:
Guard China Beach

Archer [Diana]:
Guard Cape Town

Archer [Billy Jean Tell]:
Guard Cape Town

Archer [Robyn Hood]:
Guard Green Acres

Archer [Svava]:
Guard Something Fishy

Archer [Fyre Errow]:
Guarding Cape Town (for now)
Heading to Twin Peaks eventually

Archer [Bowazon]:
Move to guard Mellow Yellow

Warrior [Xena]:
Guard Airstrip One

Warrior [Jennifer]:
Exploring the eastern continent

Foreign Builds from C&D

Templars
Jerusalem = N/A, zero shields invested
Jericho = (319 * (148 + 100)) / (3 * 550) = 48 shields (+5)

Jersualem finished something that cost 21-30 shields. Archer or chariot, since they didn't finish any buildings. (Now that is one sad capital. Barracks and palace, and nothing else - not even a granary or library! Templars really suck at this game.)

Imperio
Mutal = (139 * (135 + 100)) / (3 * 545) = 20 shields (+20)
Lakamha = (285 * (135 + 100)) / (3 * 559) = 40 shields (+17)
Chichen Itza = (379 * (135 + 100)) / (3 * 531) = 56 shields (+4)
Uxmal = (190 * (135 + 100)) / (3 * 573) = 26 shields (+4)

Hard to say what any of these cities are building right now. Mutal and Lakamha either are doing workers/settlers or getting some serious production.

PAL
Heliopolis = N/A, zero shields invested

Heliopolis finished something that cost 29-35 shields. Looks like axe or spear, depending on what they saw incoming from Rabbits.

Treasuries
Treasury report:
Templars: 106gold (-6gpt)
Imperio: 169gold (+14gpt)
PAL: 326gold (+62gpt) clearly running 0% science

[T-hawk]

The Maya are Expansive, right? Mutal and/or Lakamha could be doing granaries.

On Saxon, I'm in favor of just waiting until it's size 2, however long that takes. Better to wait rather than sink another 100 hammers into a settler. The chief risk is that the city builds an archer which would make our chariots insufficient, but even if that happens, an axeman will work and still be cheaper than a settler.

[sooooo]

I agree wait for Saxon to become size 2. Also, for China Beach, why not swap from the clams to the cows instead of turning on avoid growth. Those 3 extra hammers are useful.

[regoarrarr]

Thoughts on why PAL is still at 0% research? 326 gold seems like an awful lot. Are they delaying their research of CS till they get some sort of tech agreement from us (or someone)?

[Zeviz]

PAL is probably waiting to negotiate an agreement with Imperio.

[Sullla]

I made the swap from clams to cattle tile at China Beach (should have seen that myself!) and turned off the "Avoid Growth" button. China Beach has 27/28 food and is just awaiting some more happy faces to grow.

Based on T-Hawk's whipping math, I also plan on whipping Something Fishy's granary next turn. If you have a vehement disagreement, post sometime before the next turn starts.

[mostly-harmless]

T104:
Major news. Templars researched Metal Casting and traded it together with Monotheism to Imperio for Mathematics & Monarchy!!!
More info in the C&D thread.
I moved the scout a couple of tiles to unlock Rabbit stats. (Hope that was ok.)

mh

[Dreylin]

Well if that trade has been in place for a while, it would explain why Imperio weren't interested in our Montheism sweetner.

... but is anyone else getting a nasty suspicion that it won't just be Imperio coming for us on T120?

[mostly-harmless]

Yep. I think Imperio must notice that they cannot come for us alone.

[sunrise089]

If Templars are willing to go with Imperio, why would they wait until T120? It isn't like there will be pretense of needing to cooperate with PAL if we're dead and Imperio owns the continent.

[Swiss Pauli]

As I mentioned in the Crisis thread, Imperio might have decided to declare on us, and are therefore simply not trading with us; Templar are innocent bystanders. MC, and a run at Colossus, has to be tempting for a FIN civ with Copper and lots of Coast.

As to waiting, if Imperio attacks us whilst a NAP is in force then that's not going to sit well with Templars if/when they hear about it.

[Sullla]

Folks, it's too late for me to play the turn tonight. I was busy taking a fencing class this evening - no, I'm not making that up. Learning how to play with swords is fun.

I should have enough time to get the turns played (maybe not the Stats) tomorrow morning before I head off to the archives.