Turnplayer Thread #3

[mostly-harmless]

One more fact:
Templars are suffering a Slave Revolt in Constantinople this turn.

mh

[Sullla]

Delayed stats from T100. Sorry it had to wait a day!

General

Active Turn Player:
Sullla

Status:
Played

Tech:
Literature (1t)
100% research (76 [92] beakers/turn) @ -22gpt
209/286 beakers overall

Gold
50g in treasury

Cities

Airstrip One [guarded by Xena]:
Research (-)
Emphasizing commerce and research

Pink Dot [guarded by Britney's Spears]:
Archer (2t)
Intended to guard protected "yellow" spot

China Beach [guarded by Ms Piggy]:
Barracks (48t)

Cape Town [guarded by Diana and Billy Jean Tell and Gillian]:
Archer (1t)

Something Fishy [guarded by Svava]:
Granary (16t)
Intended for upcoming yellow city

Green Acres [guarded by Robyn Hood]:
Granary (55t)

Non-Combat Units

Scout [Sharon]:
Scouting out the eastern continent

Worker [Winston]:
Prechopping forest tiles at Airstrip One
Prechopping current tile (done!)

Worker [O'Brien]:
Roading plains hill N of Cape Town (done!)

Worker [Parsons]:
Mine grassland hill NW of Something Fishy
Moving to location (done!)

Worker [Syme]:
Finish road connection between Pink Dot and Something Fishy
Roading (done!)

Worker [Bernard]:
Prechopping forest tiles at Airstrip One
Prechopping current tile (done!)

Worker [Helmholtz]:
Prechopping forest tiles at Airstrip One
Moving to current tile (done!)

Work Boat:
Exploring unrevealed tiles in south near Templar border

Military Units

Galley [RBS Discovery]:
Exploring the eastern continent

Axeman [Gillian]:
Guarding Cape Town (for now)
Heading to Twin Peaks eventually

Axeman [Adria]:
Moving to Pink Dot region

Spearman [Jamie Lynn's Spears]:
Guarding Cape Town (for now)
Heading to Twin Peaks eventually

Spearman [Britney's Spears]:
Guard Pink Dot

Chariot [Betty Hur]:
Moving to barb city of Saxon (done!)
9XP - need 1 more!

Chariot [Lady Godiva]:
Waiting to attack barb city of Saxon

Archer [Ms Piggy]:
Guard China Beach

Archer [Diana]:
Guard Cape Town

Archer [Billy Jean Tell]:
Guard Cape Town

Archer [Robyn Hood]:
Guard Green Acres

Archer [Svava]:
Guard Something Fishy

Warrior [Xena]:
Guard Airstrip One

Warrior [Jennifer]:
Exploring the eastern continent

Foreign Builds from C&D

Templars
Jerusalem = N/A, zero shields invested (finished 21-30 shield build)
Jericho = (219 * (148 + 100)) / (3 * 550) = 33 shields (+5)

Looks like Templars built an archer or a chariot in Jerusalem. (It's not a building.) C&D Demographics will tell us next turn.

Imperio
Mutal = (257 * (126 + 100)) / (3 * 524) = 37 shields (-)
Lakamha = (614 * (126 + 100)) / (3 * 537) = 86 shields (-)
Chichen Itza = (94 * (126 + 100)) / (3 * 510) = 14 shields (-)
Uxmal = (102 * (126 + 100)) / (3 * 551) = 14 shields (-)

No change here because Imperio spent the turn in Anarchy, swapping over to Hereditary Rule and Serfdom.

PAL
Heliopolis = (75 * (38 + 100)) / (3 * 289) = 12 shields (-)

We get our first reading of a PAL city!

[mostly-harmless]

Some more news:
Rabbits converted to Islam.
The prairie dog event PAL got a couple of turns ago resulted in one tile getting +1 commerce.

I would like us to include the foreign treasury into our analysis.
T-Hawk has given the formula in the C&D thread a while back.
We need the overall pop points of each civ for it, which makes it not so straight forward. But I manged to dig through the last 20 turns successfully so here comes the treasury overview (depending on which city one looks at, the value fluctuates by+/-2gold)

Imperio: 153gold
Templars: 125gold (EDIT: corrected)
PAL: 149gold

It will be interesting to see the change next turn.

EDIT: Ah, yes, and PAL has one more coastal city that initially thought. So even more benefit from the Great Lighthouse.
mh

[Sullla]

Nice work. I couldn't do the treasury calculations because I didn't have the total population count for each civ.

Why are Rabbits spending a turn of anarchy converting to Islam in the middle of a life-or-death war?! Their idiotic play has me tearing my hair out.

[Dreylin]

I was thinking; do we have a Wonders list anywhere?

It would be useful to have a thread detailing which Wonders had been built (and by whom), which were available, rampant speculation on which team might be aiming for which, and thoughts / planning for our attempts.

I would start one, but if we want to keep the first post up-to-date, it should be someone with regular access to the game who initiates it imo.

I was going to start a discussion of whether we wanted to make a half(or whole)-hearted attempt at building one of the Aesthetics Wonders while we are still the only team holding that tech....

[mostly-harmless]

Here is the treasury statistic for T101.
Sullla, please copy into your turn report post.

Imperio: 152gold (-1gpt)
Templars: 119gold (-6gpt)
PAL: 200gold (+51gpt) clearly running 0% science

And here a list of the wonders as of T101:

Imperio:
- Mutal:
Stonehenge (T36, 2560BC); +16cpt (1000year bonus incl.); +2GProphet
The Oracle (T92, 575BC); +8cpt; +2GProphet

- Lakamha:
Islamic Shrine (T88, 675BC); +4cpt; +1GProphet

Rabbits:
- Capital:
The Great Wall (T60, 1600BC); +4cpt (1000y bonus incl.); +2GSpy

Banana:
- Capital:
The Pyramids (T75, 1000BC); +6cpt; +2GEngineer

PAL:
- Memphis(?):
The Great Lighthouse (T99, 400BC); +6cpt; +2GMerchant

And if someone is interested here a list of Great Persons:
Imperio:
Great Prophet out of Mutal in 750BC (T85) used to erect Islamic Shrine in Lakamha on T88

Rabbits:
Great General in 400BC (T99) used on a 3move chariot

PAL:
Great General in 400BC (T99) used for ???

Rabbits will get a Great Spy in 10 turns, presumably to wreck some havoc on PAL.

Banana will get a Great Engineer in ~24 turns, which must be taken into accoutn when planning for wonders.

mh

[mostly-harmless]

@ Sullla:
The water tile 1S & 1SE of the scout is tagged as coast.
I guess we have to decide whether to move the scout east now to explore the Rabbits lands or move south around that inlet to find Banana.
I am in favor of going for Banana first. We can use the warrior and the galley to scout out Rabbits.

EDIT: Should we offer Imperio the Math vs. Aesth deal in game again? Just for the off chance that they agree before Sullla plays the turn?
mh

[Swiss Pauli]

I think we have to find Banana ASAP, and try to give them as much short-term help as we can muster if it looks like they can become a half-credible opponent to PAL.

[Sullla]

Here we go for T101:

- The map design turns out to be even worse than we thought! Take a look at this:



Our scout moved south... and found an ocean. The eastern continent appears to be a crescent shape, with PAL squarely in the middle. PAL bisects Rabbits and Banana - those two teams never had any chance to work together, and PAL has narrow, chokepoint frontiers to defend on every side. Now we know why they were able to expand so rapidly with a skeleton military: because virtually every city location was "backline" and in no danger!

Seriously, I just cannot get over how awful the design is here. We went to all the trouble of sending a galley to the other side of the world, and we STILL can't contact Banana without going through PAL lands. Banana is literally sealed off from every other team by PAL's borders. I have no idea how we're going to get in touch with them...

- In more interesting news, we discovered Literature and Airstrip One began working on the Great Library, running 16 shields/turn at a 2 food/turn deficit. I did not cash in any of our pre-chops as yet, because...

- I proposed our offered Aesthetics + Monotheism for Mathematics trade with Imperio in-game. The beaker count is ridiculously in their favor (600 to 357!), so hopefully they'll accept it.

Essentially, I held off our pre-chops until we get a response on that offer. If they reject it, or we hear nothing back, I'll go ahead and cash in our three pre-chops later this turn. I'm just trying to give us one last chance to get the full chop value here.

- Betty Hur defeated one of the two barbs in Saxon, and has reached 10XP! However, the Heroic Epic doesn't require a unit with 10XP, it actually requires a unit of level 4 experience, and we can't promote until next turn. So Cape Town is essentially in limbo for one turn. I assigned it to produce research, as we can use the beakers.

- We also built a new archer in Cape Town, who is hanging out there for the moment. We currently have 1 archer, 1 spear, and 1 axe for the future Twin Peaks location.

- OK, we all agree that we need Monarchy next for more happiness, even if it's suboptimal to research a known tech. Here are our current finances for this turn - what is the most effective way to research Monarchy?

Monarchy: 429 beakers needed, ~15 beakers in overflow from Literature, 28g in treasury

100% research: 73 [113] beakers/turn @ -23gpt
90% research: 67 [103] beakers/turn @ -19gpt
80% research: 62 [96] beakers/turn @ -14gpt
70% research: 57 [88] beakers/turn @ -9gpt
60% research: 51 [79] beakers/turn @ -4gpt
50% research: 46 [71] beakers/turn @ +1gpt
0% research: 25 [39] beakers/turn @ +19gpt

Keep in mind that these numbers will change, as we will found "yellow" next turn, will probably want to swap Cape Town to Heroic Epic (although continue building Research there might be an option too), plus we could capture Saxon at any point in time once it hits size 2.

- Our exploring work boat in the south has found that the jungle barb city that Templars razed earlier had stone, rice, and banana resources in its city radius! Really dumb of them to raze that. We may want to settle it ourselves, once we are in a better position.

This turn isn't really over yet, since a lot depends on what Imperio chooses to do with our offer. But until then, let's close here for now. Stats to follow.

[Sullla]

Stats from T101:

General

Active Turn Player:
Sullla

Status:
Played

Tech:
Monarchy (14t)
100% research (19 [30] beakers/turn) @ +25gpt
15/429 beakers overall

Gold
28g in treasury

Cities

Airstrip One [guarded by Xena]:
Great Library (11t)
Pushing max shields at food deficit to get wonder!

Pink Dot [guarded by Britney's Spears and Adria]:
Archer (1t)
Intended to guard protected "yellow" spot

China Beach [guarded by Ms Piggy]:
Barracks (47t)

Cape Town [guarded by Diana and Billy Jean Tell and Gillian and Jamie Lynn's Spears and Fyre Arrow]:
Research (-)
Waiting to start Heroic Epic

Something Fishy [guarded by Svava]:
Granary (8t)

Green Acres [guarded by Robyn Hood]:
Granary (54t)

Non-Combat Units

Scout [Sharon]:
Scouting out the eastern continent

Worker [Winston]:
Prechopping forest tiles at Airstrip One
Awaiting orders

Worker [O'Brien]:
Moving to build road connection to Twin Peaks

Worker [Parsons]:
Mine grassland hill NW of Something Fishy
Mining (4t)

Worker [Syme]:
Chop/mine/road grassland hill W of Pink Dot
Moving to tile (done!)

Worker [Bernard]:
Prechopping forest tiles at Airstrip One
Awaiting orders

Worker [Helmholtz]:
Prechopping forest tiles at Airstrip One
Awaiting orders

Work Boat:
Exploring unrevealed tiles in south near Templar border

Military Units

Galley [RBS Discovery]:
Exploring the eastern continent

Axeman [Gillian]:
Guarding Cape Town (for now)
Heading to Twin Peaks eventually

Axeman [Adria]:
Guard Pink Dot

Spearman [Jamie Lynn's Spears]:
Guarding Cape Town (for now)
Heading to Twin Peaks eventually

Spearman [Britney's Spears]:
Guard Pink Dot

Chariot [Betty Hur]:
Waiting to capture barb city of Saxon at size 2
10XP - our most heroic unit!

Chariot [Lady Godiva]:
Waiting to capture barb city of Saxon at size 2

Archer [Ms Piggy]:
Guard China Beach

Archer [Diana]:
Guard Cape Town

Archer [Billy Jean Tell]:
Guard Cape Town

Archer [Robyn Hood]:
Guard Green Acres

Archer [Svava]:
Guard Something Fishy

Archer [Fyre Arrow]:
Guarding Cape Town (for now)
Heading to Twin Peaks eventually

Warrior [Xena]:
Guard Airstrip One

Warrior [Jennifer]:
Exploring the eastern continent

Foreign Builds from C&D

Templars
Jerusalem = (69 * (148 + 100)) / (3 * 575) = 10 shields (+10)
Jericho = (253 * (148 + 100)) / (3 * 550) = 38 shields (+5)

Templars built something that cost exactly 30 shields in Jerusalem last turn. Based on their C&D Power score going up 10 points, they built a chariot in Jerusalem, and an axe in one of their other cities. We need to keep a close eye on their military, which could hurt us if everything came in a big stack against one of our cities.

Imperio
Mutal = (320 * (129 + 100)) / (3 * 531) = 46 shields (+9)
Lakamha = N/A, zero shields invested
Chichen Itza = (325 * (129 + 100)) / (3 * 517) = 48 shields (+34, +30 from forest chop)
Uxmal = (131 * (129 + 100)) / (3 * 558) = 18 shields (+4)

Lakamha finished a settler. Imperio city #6 will be founded shortly.

PAL
Heliopolis = (119 * (38 + 100)) / (3 * 289) = 19 shields (+7)

Treasuries
Templars: 119gold (-6gpt)
Imperio: 152gold (-1gpt)
PAL: 200gold (+51gpt) clearly running 0% science

[regoarrarr]

3 turns of 0% science will get us 117 beakers and 57 gold, putting us at 132 beakers and 85 gold (297b remaning). 3 turns of 100% science will get us 339 beakers and lose us 69 gold, putting us over the top with 16 gold left.

And is that really true that PAL is getting 51 gpt at 0% science, while we only get 19 gpt? I know their economy is running a bit better than ours but that seems crazy.

Also, can somebody confirm that China Beach is on target to get a scientist before we pop one from the capital? GPP might be another good thing to include in your turn report under the Cities

[mostly-harmless]

Ow, crap.
With that layout PAL has 5 coastal cities (I had Heliopolis down on a inland sea, before).
So that means 8 cities x 1 trade route + 5coastal x 2 trade routes (Great Lighthouse) = 18 trade routes.
15 intercontinental & foreign x 3gpt
3 foreign (assuming open borders with Banana) x 2gpt
= 51gpt just from trade routes
Now add the coastal tiles they are working (at least 3 fish resources) and the odd cottage and you have your 51gpt at 0% science.
Now assume PAL has a couple of libraries, those 51gpt will get to even more beakers per turn when run on 100% science.

Looking at the map, the bulk of PAL cities is actually located south and south east of The Warning. Only Heliopolis (which we see) and another coastal city (presumably Memphis) are this side of The Warning.

The only option for us (as I don't see PAL allowing us scouting rights) is to move that galley all around the North East, hoping we won't get blocked by a ice field and then load the scout on the galley again.

EDIT: Both Rabbits cities remaining should be coastal cities, so the galley should be able to provide a line of sight into them.
Nevertheless we should move the scout to reveal as many inland tiles as possible.
As for the warrior, there might be a chance for a step-in-step-out maneuver in a couple of turns, if we are lucking out with a road network.

Ah yes, and Imperio turned down the offered trade.

mh

[Swiss Pauli]

Shall we try to offer Imperio Aesthetics for Monarchy in game, and send them an email asking for a feedback on the trade proposals?

And how about trying to send a WB via Templar and PAL to Banana? They can only tell us to go away if they're not happy.

[mostly-harmless]

We already offered that trade last turn and were turned down.
Sullla made an even better trade offer this turn and we were turned down.

We have a no-scouting clause with both Templars and PAL. We don't want to stir up any fuss with Templars at the moment. Besides, I believe the galley stands a better chance to reach Banana first.

EDIT: Scrap that, the galley stands zero chance to reach Banana if we are to honor the non-scouting clause at sea. We will never make it past Heliopolis borders.

mh

[regoarrarr]

@m-h; it's even worse - isn't the great lighthouse +2 trade routes, meaning 3 total?