Turnplayer Thread #3

[Swiss Pauli]

And off we go again...or we would if the game were up

[ruff_hi]

I run a few numbers for the Great Lib.

A1 at its current size of 5 (assuming we do not get additional happy when beelining Literature) can produce 16 hammers (at -1fpt which should be ok for a small period of time.

mh

The war room game reports a size 5 capital as being able to produce 14 hpt with stable food, 15 hpt for -1fpt and 16 hpt for -2fpt.

Edit (12/2 8:30am NY): I've just confirmed this in the TRUE game. Capital can produce 14 hpt in a stable food position, 15 hpt @ -1fpt and 16 hpt @ -2fpt.

[mostly-harmless]

We are back up.
Sullla, since we have to re-play the turn, can you keep Betty Hur closer to the settler, please?

mh

[ruff_hi]

I definitely think we should make a run at the Oracle ... I've mapped out a course of action using the war-room game in this post.

http://apolyton.net/forums/showthread.php?postid=5481165#post5481165

We can finish Aeth research and the Oracle (zero forest chops) on the same turn.

[sooooo]

I agree with mh that our chariot should stay with the settler.

[mostly-harmless]

Imperio built the Islam Shrine in Lakamha boosting that city culture output to 10cpt and adding even more gold per turn to Imperios coffers from Islamic cities.

Re: The Oracle.
I am still pretty sure we will see the Oracle fall to Imperio within the next few turns.
Ruff, can we get a list of things we have to delay/set aside in order to follow your plan? It should only affect the worker built at A1, right?

mh

[ruff_hi]

We have 5 turns at 'normal' at the capital. I think the worker there is due to finish in 3, 4 or 5 (not sure). Once the capital moves to max hammers, it obviously moves off the cottages, thus slowing our tech rate.

The costs are:
- opportunity cost at capital (building oracle instead of ?)
- reduced commerce by working the mines (I will war-room this to see what this costs us)

Is there another city that could build the Oracle so the capital can keep working cottages? I think Pink Dot finishes a settler in 5 - how many hammers can it put out at max hammers?

[regoarrarr]

In the state of the empire turn 85 thread, pink dot is shown with 2 mines built. I am unclear as to whether or not an additional 2 mines have been built there since then.

So it's 12-13 hpt, depending on whether there are 2, 3 or 4 mines built at Pink Dot.

It can work
city center (2/2/1)
Cattle (4/2/0)
Mine (1/3/1)
Mine (1/3/0)
Mine (1/3/0) or Forested Hill (1/2/0)

We can afford to chop a forest or two on Oracle there as well, since we would still be saving the forests at A1 for the capital

[Sullla]

Honestly, I'm still dubious about the whole plan to go for the Oracle. The northern worker in Ruff's simulation was planned to chop/mine a hill at Pink Dot, which would slightly speed up its settler build and help with future military builds. Delaying Aesthetics by researching Priesthood and pulling the capital off of its cottages is of course a genius move if we get the Oracle - and potentially damaging in our Great Library race if we don't.

I'll hold off on moving any units at the moment until we come to a consensus on whether we are going to race for the Oracle. My personal preference is "no", because I can't possibly see it lasting another 9 turns. I'm still shocked it has lasted as long as it has.

[Zeviz]

Considering how late the Islam was founded, I'd suggest we go for Oracle. We got this far by taking risks (Pink Dot, Cape Town), so let's continue playing that way. (There is a Russian saying "The one who doesn't take risks, doesn't win". ) The only cost is production spent on Oracle, but it would be converted into gold at a better rate than we'd get by building gold, so we don't lose much.

The only real risk I see for getting Oracle is that if Imperio sees us connecting Marble and researching Priesthood at the same time, they might figure out what we are planning. Do they have Marble themselves?

[Swiss Pauli]

I don't think we should commit to the Oracle at this point. If it's unclaimed 1 turn before the marble is connected by one worker, then why not go for it at Pink Dot? The 2 for 1 cashback will help us win the race to Music, and a temple at A1 would be very handy given our lack of happy.

The only team who can challenge us for the Great Library is Imperio (PAL too stretched, others too backward), and they've told us they're learning Maths. Assuming they are targeting GLib then I think they'll give up when they see us complete Aesthetics (and have Marble).

[mostly-harmless]

I am leaning against Oracle as well.
I just don't see us outracing Imperio for it. (Imperio has Marble connected and worker on chopping duty)

Lets make sure we get to the Great Lib as soon as possible.

(Scary thought: Imperio taking Aesthetics as the free tech from Oracle in the next couple of turns. Ack.)

mh

[sunrise089]

I favor Oracle - to me the cost seems very low compared to the potential gain.

[regoarrarr]

I am also for a shot at the Oracle, or at least to the point of sending both workers to quarry the marble.

After the quarry at least 1 of the workers can chop/mine the hill, with the hammers going to .... (wait for it)... (wait for it).... THE ORACLE!!!

[mostly-harmless]

We have a decent plan to go for the Great Lib, which is THE important wonder for us to keep up with Imperio. We are up against industrial civs and GNP monsters in the race to Great Lib.
With the detour to Oracle we are putting the Great Lib at risk for a remote chance of getting the Oracle.
Lakamha is a very strong production city at size 5. Two workers are there for chops and quarrying the stone tile for even more hammers.

Anyway, as I see it we "only" have to decide on worker movements for this turn, as research should definitely go towards Aesthetics for now. No point in researching Priesthood if we do not have marble, right? My bet is Oracle will fall to Imperio (Lakamha) before we connect marble. That said I am against increased worker effort to connect marble sooner.

mh