Turnplayer Thread #3

[Sullla]

That sounds like a slight consensus of trying for the Oracle. At the very least, I'll move both workers to the marble and see what happens over the next 4-5 turns while they connect it. If the wonder is still out there, and we have marble on hand, we'll hold a new discussion over whether to chase after it. Sound fair?

In the pie-in-the-sky world where we somehow land Oracle, I would take Currency with it. Extra trade routes, mmm.

Will play later tonight when I get done work.

[ruff_hi]

Originally posted by mostly-harmless
With the detour to Oracle we are putting the Great Lib at risk for a remote chance of getting the Oracle.

mh

I have to disagree with this comment with the proviso that we build the Oracle at Pink Dot. The Revised Pink Dot Oracle plan should not slow down the tech rate and should be able to complete the Oracle at about the same time as the capital with a forest chop (as per the original Mine Forest Hill Plan).

Ok, we are talking about 1 turn of research off the GL plan so there is a slight risk - not much.

I think Sullla's compromise is a good one - no tech deviation until we have Marble 1 turn from hook up.

[sunrise089]

Right Ruff - unless I'm missing something, we can go for Oracle and only cost us ONE turn for GL. That is well worthwhile, especially because we don't have a sacrifice that turn until after we have marble hooked up, so we chase a narrower window for another team to complete Oracle themselves. The opportunity cost therefore for us is (points+currency+denial to another team) versus (1 turn from GL+a few worker moves). Good trade in my eyes.

[Sullla]

T88 played (again). Everything stayed the same, aside from me correcting my brain fart in sending the settler ahead without chariot escort. Betty Hur is now in position to help if a barb would appear. Also moved Parsons, the worker moving down from the north, as per Ruff's suggestion - moving to help improve the marble ASAP.



"Current actions" post also updated. Hey, we get to found a city next turn! Woot.

[Sullla]

Also some more good news: the Templar quechua in the north (Squire Herc) is moving back to the south and east. The Templars did NOT see the barb city in the northwest, so we're under no time pressure to capture it. Virtually guaranteed that we'll get it now.

[Swiss Pauli]

One thing we forgot in the Oracle debate is that we need Priesthood in order to trade in CoL, so we need to allow for that turn of research somewhere in our near term plans.

[Zeviz]

Good point about needing Priesthood anyway.

I like Sulla's compromise, because we waste at most a couple worker turns if Imperio completes it before we hook up marble. And if they don't, we don't lose anything since we need Priesthood anyway.

[regoarrarr]

So since we have to research P'hood anyways, does it make sense to slip it in right now, since we wouldn't be delaying the GL any more than we have to anyways.

I see that Pink Dot is free to start the Oracle in 5 turns anyways - will we be done with the marble and road in 5 turns exactly also?

Any city need / want a temple? (those come with Priesthood, right)? Doing it now would also allow us to see if/when PAL gets CoL

Can we also get a science breakdown of our gold / science per turn, as well as the number of beakers if any we have / need on Phood and Aest? I want to run some numbers to see if we can exploit the overflow "bug" to gain a few beakers w/o losing any time on turns to Aest

[sunrise089]

I definitely think we should time Priesthood's arrival for the same turn the marble is hooked.

[Sullla]

For regoarrarr:

- It does not make sense to slip in Priesthood now, because if Oracle falls in the next 4 turns, we'll avoid researching it entirely.

- Ruff's Wargame post suggests that yes, we will finish quarry and road in exactly five turns.

- We need happiness, but temples are a rather poor way for our team to get it right now. (Plus, only the capital has religion at all.) As for PAL getting Code of Laws, we can detemine that with ease from Cloak and Dagger, no need to actually see it on the Tech screen.

- The breakdown of gold and science are always posted in the "Current Actions" sticky. I'll try to post the beaker value of Priesthood and Aesthetics later, when I have a chance to log into the game. Priesthood is ~70 beakers, and Aesthetics is ~420.

[regoarrarr]

But I thought we just said that even if we don't go for the Oracle that we need Priesthood to get Code of Laws, which I thought we were getting in the next few turns by trade from PAL?

[Dreylin]

Hi guys,

Think I'm just-about up to speed now - though one of the interesting things about the incredibly in-depth analysis from the C&D dept. is that it's actually been easier to catch-up with the opponents moves than RB's!

So I had a comment, and a question ... actually, two questions:

Since we do need Priesthood anyway, I favour Sunrise's plan to time it's research to coincide with the Marble, on the assumption it will only deviate 1t from the GL goal.

Question 1: I have not played Pitboss or simultaneous turns before, so I wanted to get some insight into end-of-turn processing. Is there an order in which the Team's EOTs are run - in which case do we know where RB falls - or are they all run at the same time - in which case how does the game tie-break multiple Civs building Wonders on the same turn?

This has a subtle, but noticable impact on the ability to land a wonder in a close race....

Question 2: Assuming that they have not discovered the "mouse-hover" method for determining if a resource is connected, is there another way an opponent can determine that we've got Marble connected - via F4? A corollary of that is: how much attention do we think our likely cometitors are paying to these details?

Dreylin.

[sunrise089]

Dreylin - Welcome! In my experience chasing religions and wonders in MP, tie's are broken via virtual-coin-toss.

[ruff_hi]

@Dreylin - welcome aboard. Re Q1 - that has been asked and not answered as far as I know. What we need is a code-fanatic that can dig into the code and find out.

You comment re not being able to follow RBs moves is fair. We have a current turn that is updated. I'm assuming the resident historian has all of this recorded somewhere. We also have a 'state of the nation' type report that is updated each 10 turns.

Should we start a history thread that records turn by turn. I would only record tech researched, city builds, city founded, civs met and other major items.

Possibility include strategic directions, for example GL push, possible Oracle push, etc.

[Sullla]

We don't need a separate history thread. Between the Turnplayer threads and State of the Empire threads, you should be able to pick up on everything we've been doing. And if that's not enough, you can download the Excel spreadsheets that mostly_harmless and I use to keep track of all the stats.

On to T89, which saw several positive developments for our team:

- We founded our fifth city! Been too long since that happened. We didn't have any discussion on a name, so I went ahead and dubbed it Something Fishy:



Our costs barely went up at all (-13gpt to -15gpt), while our research increased noticeably: from 48 to 54 beakers/turn. This cut one turn off of our Aesthetics research! 6 turns to go, then another 4 (I think?) for Literature. Note: we will probably have to run at least one turn of min science to continue researching at max.

- China Beach grew to size 3. Because it will otherwise grow into whip unhappiness in two turns, I assigned a scientist specialist:



In four turns, we swap back to the clams tile right in time for growth to size 4. I'm thinking worker here next, to take advantage of the food surplus while stuck with limited happiness.

- Cape Town finished its barracks. I assigned axeman next, which I think we need most. Templars have a couple spears and axes of their own, which we need some counters for. Will help with Soldier count too.

- Imperio got a huge increase in score, but I'm almost positive this was from land points. They didn't discover a tech, and they didn't build any wonders or cities. mh can confirm when he gets back.

- Sharon spotted an Imperio worker mining the gold tile at Chichen Itza, so expect them to get ANOTHER big GNP boost next turn. I still can't get over the unfairness of their quadruple gold start... plus free copper, horses, iron, marble, stone, and mucho floodplains...

- Four is the new magic number: 4 turns to another settler at Pink, 4 turns to worker at the capital, 4 turns to hook up marble, 4 turns to a major border expansion at Pink. Love the fours!