War Games

[ruff_hi]

I tested the marble site by creating a city 1 tile W of the southern marble. It will be connected to the capital once the marble is roaded (2 worker turns) and quarried (6 worker turns). That will take 1 worker 8 turns, or 2 workers 4 turns.

The war_game doesn't have any workers so I don't know where they currently are to see if we can get another worker down there.

Once we have marble at the capital, we can finish the Oracle (150 req) in 6 turns (capital can put out 14 raw hammers) and the Great Lib (350 req) in 13 turns - all turn counts ignoring any forest chop (3 turns, 20 raw hammers).

The capital can build a worker in 5 turns.

Is it worth sending another worker to help with the marble? A worker from the capital can get there in 5 turns. From Pink - 3 turns, from China B - 7 turns.

[ruff_hi]

Note: the war-room game is missing the fish from the southern marble site.

[Zeviz]

Thanks for setting up the experiment. So it looks like we'll have enough time to build Oracle normally while researching Literature. So we don't even have to worry about wasting forest chops.

[mostly-harmless]

Forest chops are 40hammers with marble, right?

mh

[ruff_hi]

yes - 20 raw hammers, doubled to 40 by marble if they go towards Oracle or GL.

[ruff_hi]

Note: Tech Research times: Aeth (8), Lit (6 est), Priesthood (1)

I've checked the REAL game and found where our workers are. The following screenshot is from the war-room game.



The middle worker is working on a road this turn and will finish it this turn (Ctrl-A will tell units with orders to finish those orders). Assuming he finishes the road, we have the following option (measured from the current turn):

Turn 0:
- middle worker finishes road
- settler moves onto forest
- northern worker moves to Pink Dot

Turn 1:
- City built
- both workers move onto forest tile 2 N of new city

Turn 2:
- both workers move onto Marble, start Quarry

Turn 3:
- quarry

Turn 4:
- quarry finished
- switch tech to Priesthood (1)

Turn 5:
- road finished, marble connected to capital
- Capital moves to max + 1 hammers (15 x 2 with Marble with -1fpt), starts Oracle (150 req at start)

Turn 6:
- Capital -> Oracle (90 req at end of turn)

Turn 7:
- Capital -> Oracle (60 req at end of turn)

Turn 8:
- Capital -> Oracle (30 req at end of turn)

Turn 9:
- Oracle completed at Capital
- Aeth research finished
- Lit research started

[mostly-harmless]

Have you taken into account cottage maturity impact on tech times?

Looks good.

mh

[ruff_hi]

oh - good point - no, I haven't. Also, moving to max hammers reduces our tech rate ... working mines instead of cottages.

[regoarrarr]

So I am assuming that you tested the turns and such in our fake game ?

[ruff_hi]

no. The war-game is actually at 4000BC. I guess we should play it forward to T86 (or whatever).

[regoarrarr]

Ruff - can you run any simulations to see if / how we could exploit the beaker overflow bug to get a few extra turns on Aest?

From the way I understand it, any overflow is calculated based on the pre-req discounts of the previous tech. Since (I think) our pre-req discounts for Phood are higher than the ones for Aest, we could gain somewhere between 10-20 beakers if we do it right

At least it seems like that might work.

[ruff_hi]

I cannot find a way to get the war-game to T88 short of playing it for 88 turns. The problem with that is the AI does stuff (GRRR). Any suggestions? There is a setting in the WB text file but that doesn't seem to do anything short of moving the end date, you still start at 4000BC.

Anyway, I tested the tech overflow using the following:

29 raw beakers becomes 42 against priesthood (1.45 mult)
29 raw beakers becomes 36 against aeth (1.25 mult)

I put 84 beakers into priesthood (needs 85), then 1 turn into aeth then back to priesthood to finish it. The overflow plus another turn went into aeth ... at that stage, I had

106 in aeth ...
2 x 36 + 1 x 34 (overflow)

Which tends to say that the overflow bug has been fixed.

[ruff_hi]

I forgot to mention that when I was playing the wargame thru to T88, the Templars used spies against pink dot and destroyed 2 mines and 1 pasture and Imperio finished the Oracle around Turn 60 or so.

[Sullla]

I was sitting here thinking over some Demogame-related thought, and guess what? I think we really have a chance to get the Oracle! Here's why:

- Imperio is definitely going for a Civil Service grab. That's why they're researching Mathematics right now. But they still need Code of Laws, so they will have to research it or trade for it with PAL first, and PAL still has a ways to go (we think).

Hopefully we get the PAL eta on Code of Laws soon. So long as it's more than 6 turns, we're in business. Ruff gave us a plan to get the Oracle in Airstrip One in 9 turns, or finishing on T97. But we can actually do it much faster than that! Here's what we could do:

Turn 89 (current turn):
- City built (check!)
- both workers move onto forest tile 2 N of new city (check!)
- Swap Airstrip One off cottages to finish worker in 3 turns instead of 4 (not done yet)

Turn 90:
- both workers move onto Marble, start Quarry

Turn 91:
- quarry
- Airstrip One 1 turn away from worker
- swap tech to Priesthood (1)

Turn 92:
- quarry finished
- Airstrip One swaps to max shields (15/turn) at 1 food/turn deficit
Oracle needs 150 shields remaining

Turn 93:
- road finished, marble connected to capital
- Airstrip One still at max shields, gets double value (30 shields/turn)
- Finish two pre-chopped forests for 20 x 2 = 40 shields each
Oracle needs 135 shields remaining, becomes 55 after chopping

Turn 94
Oracle needs 25 shields remaining

Turn 95
Oracle complete!

I know it sounds crazy, but we can finish it in a mere 6 turns from scratch. The best part is, we don't burn the forests until the next-to-last turn, so if Oracle would get completed before T93, we don't even lose anything. (We could even whip Oracle to completion on T93, if we were uber-paranoid, but that seems excessive.)

At this point though, I think we have an excellent chance to get it. Imperio got too greedy and went for too expensive a tech. At the very least, we should try this because the payoff would be so huge and the opportunity cost is so low. Right?

[sunrise089]

I agree, especially since I've been saying this (without the expert micro detail) all along. In fact, I'd probably whip the city as well, since there's a chance Banana or Rabbits are going for the wonder.