Tech Discussion

[Swiss Pauli]

If it is PAL working on Philo, I'd say the chances are quite high that they are planning to grab Nationalism and draft Banana into oblivion.

@sunrise - would this be a fair comment about our MP friends?

[mostly-harmless]

Not sure PAL thinks they need Nationalism to finish off Banana.
They are currently twice Bananas size, have a huge army already and lands of plenty to settle.

My money is on Templars going for their 3rd religion. Who knows, they might already have deals with Imperio, PAL and Banana set up to trade Philo. Certainly worked well for them with MC.

mh

[Swiss Pauli]

I think PAL are still smarting from their failure to polish off Rabbits, so I think they'll go fully prepared against Banana. If Banana put their cities on hills, with Walls and PRO Cho-ko-nu, PAL will need a lot of units to take them down.

Templar did say they were learning Theo, but IIRC you thought that was a lie...

[ruff_hi]

If metal casting is really a 5 turn tech (SP mentioned it in the templar thread) and we get the nod from banana about machinary, I think we should tech MC ourselves and tell templars to get stuffed (well, diplomatically, of course).

[sunrise089]

@Swiss - Sorry, I'm not sure of the exact question. Are you asking if my thoughts would apply if we were attacking PAL?

[Swiss Pauli]

@Swiss - Sorry, I'm not sure of the exact question. Are you asking if my thoughts would apply if we were attacking PAL?

Would MP guys like PAL be switched on to the power of drafting to go Philo-Nationalism at this stage of the game?

[mostly-harmless]

I have the same thought as Ruff. We can lean on Templars to get things rolling in the next 24 hours or get stuffed, as selfresearch of MC will give us instant Macemen.

I feel MC should have priority over Construction in that respect, as Maces are more valuable than Elephants against Imperio(?).

mh

[sunrise089]

They've probably never played that way, no. In a Renaissance era game you always tech Gunpowder first and then Nationalism. In a Medieval game the first group of techs are Feudalism, Civil Service, Machinery, Guilds, Music, and Engineering. If a medi games goes beyond those techs the teams will generally run to Liberalism, since you're generally playing for points.

Likewise in a CTON (1v1v1v1....) game where the lead players tech well (Liberalism in ~110 turns on Quick) I've never seen anyone beeline Nationalism without Gunpowder.

All of that said, MP guys know the power of Nationalism, though we generally use it in the Industrial Era the most to make a large quick stack of Rifles. Default MP thinking is that 2-movers are supreme, so in any era that allows the choice, the typical MP play is to go Horseback riding over Feudalism, Guilds over Civil + Machinery, ...

[Swiss Pauli]

I have the same thought as Ruff. We can lean on Templars to get things rolling in the next 24 hours or get stuffed, as selfresearch of MC will give us instant Macemen.

I feel MC should have priority over Construction in that respect, as Maces are more valuable than Elephants against Imperio(?).

mh

I agree that it's getting to ultimatum time with Templars. I'll draft the text of a PM to send to Aidun and their team leaders (which is what I had to do last time to get a reply).

As to tech, I think Construction is more important than MC as it let's us build strong, resource-independent units (Catapults). In the nightmare scenario, Imperio will DoW, pillage/sabotage our horses and copper, and get Templars to close borders, so we lose access to Banana's Iron and PAL's Ivory.

[Sullla]

I would definitely tech Construction next. I still think we have a reasonable chance to get Metal Casting from Templars, and 5t (while it doesn't sound like a lot) is a major waste for a tech that everyone else has. By comparison, we could gain a monopoly tech like Calendar, which everyone else would want to trade for, with those same 5 turns.

[Zeviz]

I agree that Construction is better for immediate future. In a few days, we can offer Templars a deal too good to refuse.

[regoarrarr]

So at what point do we want to research Metal Casting on our own? We'll have Construction in 3 turns (hopefully), and if we can flip that for Calendar, do we go MC next?

What are our other options?

[ruff_hi]

I think MC should be our next tech after Construction regardless of other considerations. Once we have invested beakers in MC, I think that we can start to return the 'cold shoulder' to Templars.

[Swiss Pauli]

I agree with ruff.

[Sullla]

Assuming we can't trade for Metal Casting, it has to come next. I've been hoping for weeks now that Templars would crack on that one, but they haven't budged.