Turnplayer Thread #2.

[sunrise089]

Those resources are closer (horse) or as close (copper) to Imperio's cap than ours, right? Why are we assuming those are "our" resources? I wouldn't be surprised if they were just random placements.

If you guys think the meta-game side can deter aggression, then I support settling on the plains hill 1N of the copper. I my own games though, I'd never settler so far from my own support and so close to enemy units.

[Krill]

I take it you guys understand why I refused to play in this game now?

And as to laughing behind your back...M-H has it right: are you sure Imperio or Templars have discovered all of the map? Interesting dicisions you have...

[Zeviz]

The problem with settling copper city is that it would look like we are claiming half a continent for ourselves. If the other teams have half a brain, they'll have to respond to this move before we solidify our control. Considering how long it would take us to build a road to connect that copper, and how easy it would be for enemies to cut that road, we could lose the game before we train a single axeman from the capital.

Don't forget that while Templars might be clueless, Imperio have played very well so far, so they probably know how to deal with an opponent that founds a reach city next to their capital in a desperate attempt to grab a military resource.

EDIT: Although it might be possible to hold that location if we settle on a hill and start training archers continuously from the moment Pink Dot is done with Settler. I'll defer this decision to people with real MP experience.

EDIT2: What if we switch research to Sailing? That way we would have the copper instantly connected through Blue Dot. In fact, this changes my opinion. Now I might be in favor of settling next to (or even on top of) that Copper, and connecting it through Blue Dot by sea. We do face the danger of a Barb city popping up to cut our supply lines, but that's less than the danger of Templar units cutting our land road.

[ruff_hi]

Our copper and horses - oh - those way over the other side of the world - sure - they are ours. We just need to dig through to them.

We have to research sailing for our trade. But we have 1 tile of fog North of capital that will block coastal trade. What about sending a unit North on recon to clear that tile and open up trading for us?

Edit: I think that we really need that copper. Those tiles mean that we cannot rely on already having Iron and the other guys will be pushing out axes soon. I would settle on the hill, picking up the crabs, cows, copper and horses. We should be able to defend that position and having the ability to sail extra units in if required is very valuable.

[mostly-harmless]

To connect up Copper city we just have to clear that northern fog, that is correct.
For trade with Imperio we would have to fogbust with a workboat that area next to PAL.
For trade wit PAL (considerable more proficient than IMperio) we would have to find, well, PAL.

I suggest that if we decide on rushing towards copper city, we swap IW with Sailing to get those workboats out sooner. We won't loose any invested beakers and for the PAL-trade it does not matter in which order we research.

The key is to decide quickly whether to go for Copper City o not, so we can adjust our economy/built orders this turn.

mh

[sooooo]

I think we should wait for iron working. Settling a very undefendable, provocative city site should only be done if we have no iron. I think we can spare the handful of turns it would take between rushing a settler and IW coming in. I think we should stick to the original plan of timing a settler to come out at iron working.

[mostly-harmless]

Why would it be undefendable?
Settling on the hill and placing one archer there is a pretty good initial defense. By the time IMperio will notice the existence of the city (2nd ring pop) we have additional 20% cultural defense there. That is exactly how we argued with Pink Dot.
Also, it is well away from Templars territory, so should not be of their concern at all.

And why is it provocative?
The hill spot is exactly 7 tiles away from our capital AND from Imperio's capital.

Also we are not just talking copper here, but horses as well plus two food resources. This is a very strong city location, that will get 13 hammers at size 3-4 once improved. It is not exactly that we weaken our overall position here with landing that city.

And why wait for iron? Does it really mean that we would give up that spot if we have iron available somewhere else?

@sunrise: Both Imperio & Templars have each claimed one source of horses already.

mh

[Sullla]

Guys, we obviously don't have a clear consensus on this issue right now. The turn is going to end in 15 more hours, so it's urgent that we decide what we're going to do.

Let's hold a quick vote right here in this thread: should we swap to settler in Pink Dot immediately and swap to Sailing research to go for those resources? I'll say YES, with the added caveat that we immediately contact Imperio and agree to the 25 turn NAP that they proposed. That would give us the breathing room needed to secure the location. And they did offer it to us, after all!

Fortunate favors the bold.

[Kylearan]

Hi,

fortune favors the bold indeed, and let me add: no risk, no fun! I'd say yes, grab that spot. It's just too good to pass up, IMHO. Might make the game all the more interesting, too. We just have to take some risk to compensate for our bad starting position, if we want to remain competitive.

-Kylearan

[mostly-harmless]

Just in case my opinion was not made clear before:
YES! Go Cape Copper

mh

[ruff_hi]

My vote: Yes to city on Hill grabbing crabs, cows, horses, copper. And if we decide to go with it - I think that m-h has already named it. Any other location is just asking for trouble.

[mostly-harmless]

Uh!
Upon checking the log at civstats, it seems I finished the turn accidentally while checking on the situation. Now it sounds like a really lame excuse, but I blame my little daughter, who can just about reach the keyboard now and all it took was probably jst hitting (?). Honest!
Anyway, we can still make the changes this turn, but should do so before all the remaining teams click end-turn.
Provided the majority votes for settling the plains hill.

I am deeply sorry, if that causes any inconvenience with the turnplayer.

mh

[sunrise089]

Yes - settle for it. And please, can we place at least 2 archers there? If Imperio has any aggressive players at all, it would be so tempting to slam as many chariots as they can produce into that city the moment they discover it.

I hope we look at the situation this way: we're securing a strong city and a strong territorial claim, and at least we're settling on a strong defensive tile. We should not assume we can keep the copper hooked up under any sort of attack. Settling ON the copper is probably the MP play if you desperately need the copper enough to settle that far away, but you'd have to settle in-force with 3-4 units in the city.

[Zeviz]

Yes. Settle that hill while researching Saling.

And we need to send a unit to clear last square of fog right away. I suggest moving one of the warriors as temporary garrison at the capital and send its archer out for that mission. We can train another archer when current worker is done.

EDIT: I am tempted to suggest settling on the copper, because then we wouldn't need to send a worker there at all, and wouldn't have to worry about keeping copper hooked up.

[Sullla]

That was a resounding consensus in favor of going for it! We may be chopping off our own necks, but at least we agree. Here's the steps I'm going to take, and the other actions I'm going to suggest as a team:

- Research swapped from Iron Working (12t remaining) to Sailing (8 turns).

- Pink swaps to a settler, and goes over to max food/shield configuration. Settler ETA 8 turns. We can double-whip the city to complete the settler in 3 more turns; as a group, we should discuss whether it's worth it to do so. I would probably say yes, although that's just an initial gut reaction.

- Airstrip One will finish its worker (2t), then builds an archer at max shields (2t), which will go to Cape Copper. After that, we can decide whether to go over to a commerce configuration.

- Diana (the archer in Airstrip One) immediately starts moving towards Cape Copper. Xena (one of our old warriors) will go into the capital to serve as token defender/military police.

- Jennifer (our excess warrior at Pink) will help guard the settler for the initial part of its journey, making sure the path is clear through the central desert.

- Sharon will stay at the Cape Copper site to keep lookout for the moment.

- Diplomatically, we should contact Imperio and immediately take them up on their NAP offer. We should be able to negotiate that into place just before they catch sight of our settler. Devious, eh? If they choose to attack us then, we can rightly paint them as dastardly villains.

- We can also try to ingratiate ourselves further with the Templars. Our landgrab is shaping up nicely enough that we may not have to go the aggressive route.

Anyway, because Imperio never ends their turn, there was plenty of time to go in and make these changes before the clock ran out. I think it speaks highly of our team that we were able to change policy directions so quickly once new information came in.