Team Info and Contacts - Templars

[Zeviz]

Zeviz: Which part of your post did you put in the main forum? Was this line included:

Yes, everything was included. Sorry about mispost. (I am still sure I didn't even have that thread open, because I normally open threads by clicking "new post" button, so no idea how it ended up in public forum.)

PS As for my view on this, I still think that it's still a good idea to send that email to Imperio and Templars. (The email that says "option 1 we ally with you against another team on our continent; option 2 we ally with them against you; option 3 we redefine our victory condition to control of our continent.")

[MyOtherCar]

It seems to me Aidun is doing typical diplo talk. He keeps hammering at us with potential threats and empty promises. It's a game of attrition: he keeps on going on till we get weary and give in.

It's a good thing he gets his own thread. That makes reading his prolixity (ty google) optional.

[Swiss Pauli]

I think we should take a hard line in our official reply to Templars:

But like the leader of a random small country in the real world
doesn't generally turn down an offer from the President of the United
States of America, so my team finds it hard to say 'No' to a friendly
PAL, when the Templars as an individual team can benefit from it. In
fact in this time of war, the team can use any help that is being
offered.

Templars,

We're intrigued by your comparison of PAL to the USA of the 20th century, but we find that PAL more resembles the 'perfidious Albion' that was Great Britain in the 18th and 19th centuries. Just as Britain would pick up, use, and discard allies based on self-interest alone, so PAL is doing here: when Imperio looked to be the biggest threat to their dominance, they supported Team RB. Now that we're 'the best of the rest', PAL supports those who took up arms against us.

PAL will dump you as soon as it suits them to do so, make no mistake about that.

As to grand alliance, of Team RB, Templars, and Imperio, we think it is incumbent on the aggressors to come up with a potentially workable proposal: a declaration of war is the ultimate betrayal, so we need you to come up with a proposal that can re-establish the trust that will be needed to work together to bring PAL down to size.

Regards,

Team RB

And take a slightly softer tone with Aidun...

[Dreylin]

I like the approach, and we definitely need them to understand that they started this even if they prefer to think of it as "RB's fault".

[Zeviz]

The proposed email sounds good, but I'd also mention that after dirty tricks like pillaging roads that they allowed us to build in neutral areas, we'll need iron-clad guarantee that they will not betray us again.

[Kylearan]

I like Swiss' letter!

[ruff_hi]

we need to get something out to Templar's this turn. Next turn will be too late as we would have moved against Jericho. I wouldn't say this is their last chance (Sunrise will have a baby), but we need to make an effort.

Let's send swiss' email soon.

[sooooo]

Our previous email to Templars did very clearly ask for a counterproposal for a peace deal. Yet they have not sent one. Their inactivity will probably lead to a loss of a city.

I'm willing to bet we'll get something in our inbox next turn when we park a sizeable stack of troops outside their city .

[Swiss Pauli]

Should we send the message to Templars this turn? Seeing Sullla's work proves they could have a reasonable stack in the fog, we should try to keep our options open.

[ruff_hi]

lets send swiss' email today. We should barb them with a ...

'com'n guys - talk, nothing is coming of not talking. The ball is in your court!'

[sooooo]

Why send the email if we want to take their city? Or are you opposed to operation Joshua? If so, then that needs to be stated (though it is slightly late). I see no point in sending a message encouraging cooperation and at the same time parking a massive stack outside their city. That's not hedging our bets, that's just sending contradictory messages. If we send a "threat" message, then that's understandable.

If we are scared of templars' hidden stack, then that is an argument for calling off operation Joshua, and should be stated in the Joshua thread.

To my mind, the only reason for wanting a peace deal with Templars was to get our trade routes back. With getting mercantilism soon, that gain is reduced. Trade routes would be better than mercantilism, but not overly so that we have to give up our chance to take out Jericho. A peace deal with Imperio on the other hand would be a lot better. We can easily take out templars if we don't have to worry about Imperio. But if we sign peace with Templars, we are still not in a position to strike against Imperio.

Added to all of this is that Templars have had plenty of chances to offer a peace deal and we have requested one on many occasions. If they wanted one they would have done so. Asking for the fourth or fifth time for a proposal is not going to change anything. Parking the stack outside their city on the other hand may encourage them to write to us.

[Swiss Pauli]

I don't agree that we should not talk just because we're planning to move on Jericho. We have no guarantee of success. Nor is there any guarantee that Templars will come begging for peace when we park our tanks on their lawn, so to speak. They can bring up their reserves, and we might call off the attack as a result.

[Sullla]

Talking to the other civs is indeed good. But we've been sending messages to Templars (and Aidun) for weeks now, with little response. We sent them multiple offers and asked for counteroffers, without getting anything in return. At some point, diplomacy simply fails. They ain't talking to us right now.

sooooo has the right idea: we can't simultaneously ask for cooperation and also threaten Templar cities. Given that we are in what looks to be a strong position right now, I say we go ahead and attack Jericho, then issue ultimatums: do ___ or we will destroy you. Being the nice guy hasn't worked with Templars. They violated their treaties with us, declared war, and now they have to pay the price.

[Kylearan]

Although this may sound strange coming from me, I agree with sooooo and Sulla - more diplomacy is useless at this point. Additionally, talking about peace while preparing for capturing a city could haunt us later, if exposed by Templars to other teams. Not that I really think there will be any meaningful diplomacy between opposing alliances in the future, but who knows?

[Dreylin]

There is certainly no point sending a concilliatory e-mail to them as we're busy parking a stack on their doorstep. The only thing worth sending would be an ultimatum threatening Jericho after we have moved our stack, however I don't think the team really wants to not attack them at this point, so there's really little point. Save the diplomacy for after we have captured/razed their city and they come begging for peace.