Team Info and Contacts - Templars

[mostly-harmless]

Regarding the Apo Palace, I was looking into the possibility of Templars getting a diplo victory:
Here is the voting situation:
Templars as Full Member and/or Apo resident get double votes.
Assuming Constantinople (no line of sight) has Christianity as well they have 27 pop with Christianity = 54 votes.
Imperio has 8 votes (Chichen Itza).
RB has 7 votes (Pink Dot).
PAL has 11 votes (Memphis, derived from C&D).
This fits the 80 available votes from the "Members" Screen.
For a simple decisions/resolutions 49 out of 80 votes are needed, so Templars can do those themselves.
For the diplo victory 60 out of 80 votes are needed. Tem and Imp can do that currently.
However, I read somewhere, that the diplo victory does not pop up unless all civs in the game have at least one city with the Apo Palace religion. So lets hope Christianity does not spread to Banana.

mh

[Dreylin]

I don't think it would hurt to send a variation of the following to both Templars & Imperio:

Templars / Imperio,

We understand that you see us as major competition, and are having your shot at taking us down. We believe that continued war on our continent is handing the game to Pal - they already have Education(!?) and are well on the way to an uncontested Liberalism, they have more cities than any other civ and still have space to expand.

Assuming that we cannot pursuade you to conclude our war and ally against them, we would like to ask / propose the following:

Close Borders with Pal

They receive a substantial chunk of their income from Great-Lighthouse-fueled Intercontinental Trade Routes, without which their research levels may return towards the levels of the rest of us. You should be able to maintain your own Intercontinental routes with the cties of Rabbits and Bananas.

TeamRB.

[mostly-harmless]

The trade routes to rabbits are blocked by PAL.

I don' think there is anything to gain from talking to Imp and Tem now. I believe the game is to far advanced to deny PAL victory. We are not going to get alliance with Tem and Imp.

mh

[Dreylin]

What do we lose by talking?

I don't expect to get an alliance either, but if we could get one of them to cancel OB then that's a small win.

[mostly-harmless]

They have more trade routes each than Banana has cities, so it would be a loss to them closing borders to PAL. Why would they do that?
mh

[Dreylin]

To try and stop Pal running away with the game?

[Kylearan]

Hi,

I agree with Dreylin. Just because we failed at diplomacy in the early game doesn't mean we should stop talking now. Trying to persuade them to do something, anything, against PAL is better than giving up and doing nothing.

-Kylearan

[Zeviz]

I agree with Dreylin. Unless we insult them so much that they are willing to throw away the game to spite us, they fear PAL victory almost as much as our victory. So if they can do something to hurt PAL without hurting themselves, they might do it.

[sooooo]

I'm fine with Dreylin's message.

[mostly-harmless]

I see this message as absolutely pointless. Tem and Imp are committed to this war since ages. Do we really think they have not recognized PAL as the potential victor in this game? Of course they have. What they are aiming for is control of our continent. (Same situation like us).

Get rid of the question mark behind education. Pal has it (and both Imp and Tem know it). Tem and Imp do not have the map knowledge (or maybe they do, they could have traded maps with PAL already) that closing borders with PAL will loose them Rabbit trades as well.
Just some figures:
Imperio will go from 37 raw trade commerce down to 29 (and that already means one national trade route).
Templar will go down from 31 to 26 raw income (no multipliers applied yet).

Would we in their position even consider such an proposal from our sworn enemies, given that we recently got important military tech from PAL (Civil Service)?

mh

[sunrise089]

Unlike M_H, with whom I usually agree re: diplo stuff, I don't object at all to this message. That's because it carries zero cost to us.

That said, I think the following is completely false:

Hi,

I agree with Dreylin. Just because we failed at diplomacy in the early game doesn't mean we should stop talking now. Trying to persuade them to do something, anything, against PAL is better than giving up and doing nothing.

-Kylearan

We did not "fail" at diplomacy. Rather, we succeeded in playing too well. We weren't declared on for not signing a border agreement or settling Pink Dot or Cape Town. We were declared on because the demo screen showed we were going to defeat our rivals in the long run. Their mistake was not working to make sure PAL was out of the picture before turning on us, not the fundamental issue of viewing us as a threat. No amount of pleasantries was going to convince Imperio and Templars to surrender gracefully so long as they thought they could defeat us 2v1.

[Kylearan]

Hi,

We did not "fail" at diplomacy. Rather, we succeeded in playing too well. We weren't declared on for not signing a border agreement or settling Pink Dot or Cape Town. We were declared on because the demo screen showed we were going to defeat our rivals in the long run.

In my opinion, our failure at diplomacy was that we didn't successfully convinced Templars and Imperio that PAL is the biggest threat in the game. Of course we are a natural target to them because we share the same continent, which made this task rather hard.

However, it was clear that PAL would run away with the game before Templars and Imperio prepared for an attack on us in earnest. PAL were the first to declare war and nearly eliminated a rival, and even T&I must have realized that they are the biggest danger. And yet, we didn't manage to convince T&I to work together with us. At some point, they even stopped talking to us altogether! And while we thought at first they would generally not talk to anyone, now it turns out they did - they even managed to form an alliance with the others against us.

So we managed to annoy them so much, either with our actions in the game, with our mails, or both, that they rather attack us than the bigger threat. That's diplomatic failure to me!

I'm looking forward to read the other fora when the game is over...

-Kylearan

[ruff_hi]

email sent to both Imperio and Templars with the subject "Slowing PAL Down"

Templars / Imperio,

We understand that you see us as major competition, and are having your shot at taking us down. We believe that continued war on our continent is handing the game to PAL - they already have Education and are well on the way to an uncontested Liberalism, they have more cities than any other civ and still have space to expand.

Assuming that we cannot persuade you to conclude our war and ally against them, we would like to ask / propose the following:

Close Borders with Pal

They receive a substantial chunk of their income from Great-Lighthouse-fueled Intercontinental Trade Routes, without which their research levels may return towards the levels of the rest of us. You should be able to maintain your own Intercontinental routes with the cities of Rabbits and Bananas.

Ruff for TeamRB.

[sunrise089]

Krill has paused the game for one Templar player. I think this is unfair and silly. Why are we pausing when a single player is away for a small amount of time? I didn't ask for a pause when I was away this past weekend.

Do we want to protest this?

[Dreylin]

Maybe we should ask whether Herc is really the only Templar left standing, and offer to help with a recruitment drive....