Team Info and Contacts - Banana

[Swiss Pauli]

Hmm, I read it that he was interested in calendar, music and currency, but I didn't read it that both teams had to research a tech that he was interested in. If he was to research calendar and ourselves something good (like paper, engineering or feudalism) then I think he'd be OK with that.

I see your point, but we don't want Banana to research too much namby-pamby stuff like Calendar and Music, and get wiped out by PAL.

@ all - as we seem quite split on the tech deal, how about we propose Construction for Calendar?

Pros
- We get trade value from Construction
- We get the happy from Calendar
- We can focus on military techs
EDIT: Banana gets a military tech

Cons
- We lose trades for Calendar (at least 3)


If we can't agree a way forward by tomorrow, then we simply have to write that we're undecided on shorter-term trades, and we should look again when he's completed Compass (T117/8).

[Dreylin]

SP: for now could we just say something like "of the techs you mentioned, Calendar is also on our mid-term plan. We could have it researched by ~t??? or are willing to offer a trade involving Construction, should you plan to complete it earlier."

[sooooo]

I think proposing construction for calendar is a good idea. IMO we should suggest that Banana research calendar since we plan to research construction anyway.

[mostly-harmless]

Yes, I like construction - calendar as well.
mh

[sunrise089]

I like Music for Calendar. It has the beaker balance that probably results in equal research times, and like Sooooo I think Music is mainly valuable for the GA. IMHO having ANY trade set-up for Music alone is wonderful.

One other thing: "annihilate" could maybe be changed to "attack." Otherwise there is a connotation that Banana is hopelessly weak, which while true is probably not terribly diplomatic.

[Swiss Pauli]

As we failed to reach consensus:

Hi Team Banana,

Following up on our earlier discussions, we'd like to present our current ideas for you to consider:

In the short-term, we find ourselves threatened by Imperio's Jumbos & Cats, so we've just learnt HBR, and will now start Construction. If a worried Team Templar contacts you when they see that we possess these techs, please assure them that we pursuing this path to defend ourselves from Imperio, not to attack them. We've not been successful in persuading Templars of our peaceful intentions, in spite of offering them a long term NAP.

Concerning Templars, it was clear from your coordination of discovery of MC & Machinery that you have worked together with them before. If we can bring them into a three-way research block, maybe together we can start to challenge Imperio & PAL's domination? Do you think this could work?

Regarding our own NAP, we would suggest inclusion of an auto-renewal clause: i.e. after 30 of 40 turns, if neither side notifies the other of a desire to cancel the agreement, it would automatically renew for 20 turns. This ensures at least a 10turn "notice period" of intent to cancel the agreement, and saves the bother of re-negotiating the agreement as it nears expiry.

Regarding Horses: assuming we are not in dire need ourselves at the time they will be made available to you upon request. Our metal would also be available, should something untoward happen to your supply. Another future proposal we'd like to discuss, would be a post-Guilds deal whereby we gift you our Horses for a period to allow you to train Knights, then you return the favour by gift us Iron for us to do likewise.

As to techs like Music and Calendar, we haven't yet decided on how these fit in with our shorter term plans and needs. What do plan to research after Compass? Let us know your thoughts, and we'll try to work out a win-win deal.

Finally, to return to Philosophy for a moment. If PAL are learning this tech, it's possible that they are planning an early move for Nationalism, with the intention of drafting an army to annihilate you. As a first suggestion, we recommend you focus sufficient Espionage spending on PAL in order to maintain visibility of their research. Forewarned is forearmed, as they say!

Best Regards

Swiss Pauli

I favour talking up the threat posed by PAL, as we want to steer Banana down the Feud-Guilds path. I'll send this email out in a few hours.

[regoarrarr]

Thanks for taking the lead on just sending something. Here's a story a guy shared at church on Sunday:
====
This guy's dad grew up on a ranch and apparently one day he and 2 other people were out baling hay or something along those lines when one of the supports that a machine that they were using broke. So one guy was essentially holding up this machine (several hundred pounds and more than he could really hold) by himself.

The 2 other guys were kind of looking around not sure what to do and I’m sure kind of in shock / panicking. Then the guy that is holding the machine up says “Do something, even if it’s wrong”

[Swiss Pauli]

A few hours became a dozen, but the message has now been sent

[sooooo]

And an email from Banana. It's a little difficult to paste into the forums because he has used bold in gmail to highlight his points.

Realms Beyond Team,

Thank you for upholding your promise to continue talks with us. You can find my responses to your proposals below (in bold).

Regards,
Donovan Zoi

Hi Team Banana,

Following up on our earlier discussions, we'd like to present our current ideas for you to consider:

In the short-term, we find ourselves threatened by Imperio's Jumbos & Cats, so we've just learnt HBR, and will now start Construction. If a worried Team Templar contacts you when they see that we possess these techs, please assure them that we pursuing this path to defend ourselves from Imperio, not to attack them. We've not been successful in persuading Templars of our peaceful intentions, in spite of offering them a long term NAP.

What kind of diplomacy are you having with Imperio right now? Is war pending?

I will see if I can get in contact with Templars. FYI, I just received a short email from Aidun yesterday saying that he will be playing a smaller role in the game due to RL. He was the only one I have really had contact with, besides one PM from Hercules.

We would be quite interested in Construction once you discover it, but will probably have to work out a deal that suits your short-term interests ( see below for our next research moves).


Concerning Templars, it was clear from your coordination of discovery of MC & Machinery that you have worked together with them before. If we can bring them into a three-way research bloc, maybe together we can start to challenge Imperio & PAL's domination? Do you think this could work?

I would have to see. The MC/Machinery trade wasn't planned in any way; it just worked out. I'll put out the diplomatic feelers. In the meantime, what is my quickest method of meeting Imperio? Is it worth our time for me to try to do so?

Regarding our own NAP, we would suggest inclusion of an auto-renewal clause: i.e. after 30 of 40 turns, if neither side notifies the other of a desire to cancel the agreement, it would automatically renew for 20 turns. This ensures at least a 10turn "notice period" of intent to cancel the agreement, and saves the bother of re-negotiating the agreement as it nears expiry.

This is exactly the type of NAP we would have requested. We can start this turn if you'd like.


Regarding Horses: assuming we are not in dire need ourselves at the time they will be made available to you upon request. Our metal would also be available, should something untoward happen to your supply. Another future proposal we'd like to discuss, would be a post-Guilds deal whereby we gift you our Horses for a period to allow you to train Knights, then you return the favour by gift us Iron for us to do likewise.

This sounds like a workable plan. I do not foresee needing Horses in the short term, but they will definitely come in handy post-Guilds.


As to techs like Music and Calendar, we haven't yet decided on how these fit in with our shorter term plans and needs. What do plan to research after Compass? Let us know your thoughts, and we'll try to work out a win-win deal.

Unfortunately, I believe we will be going for Calendar next. We have 3 incense that, once equipped with Plantations, will help to fund our expansion of at least two new cities. I am not stellar with the math, so do you have a rough estimate as to what my city maintenance would be at 7-8 cities? I think I will be able to hold off on Drama (not Music, need Drama for Pavilions) for awhile so that our team can start on Feudalism.


Finally, to return to Philosophy for a moment. If PAL are learning this tech, it's possible that they are planning an early move for Nationalism, with the intention of drafting an army to annihilate you. As a first suggestion, we recommend you focus sufficient Espionage spending on PAL in order to maintain visibility of their research. Forewarned is forearmed, as they say!

Thanks for the heads up. Since we are working together, I can tell you that we are signed into a 60-turn NAP with PAL, which will last until Turn 167. When I took over the team, I had come this close to attacking their poorly defended cities on our border. It was so tempting knowing they were probably front-lining everything at the Rabbits, but now our NAP with them will allow us some room to breathe and hopefully get back into the game.

I'll let you know PAL's next research target in two turns. I will have access to that information for quite some time.

Best Regards

Swiss Pauli

[Dreylin]

"Unfortunately he's going for Calendar"?

Sounds like Construction for Calendar to me!

[sooooo]

Well, he seems like a pleasant chap. It is good news that he plans to research Calendar next - I'm sure we can offer him something for that (construction probably). I like the way he says he will try to contact templars and possibly sweet-talk them into being less scared of us. And espionage knowledge into PAL's techs would be priceless - I'm sure m_h is grinning deviously at that sentence.

[regoarrarr]

Yes I think Construction for Calendar seems to make sense for both of us

[sunrise089]

I like the guy - confident but not arrogant.

Re: Number of cities math - Obviously Banana doesn't have our micro experts. I think we should help him here - brownie and respect points for us with very little cost - we WANT Banana to expand to keep PAL in check or at least slowed down.

Re: PAL - Too bad he didn't hit their back cities. Who wants to bet PAL knights/currisairs roll over the border in 60 turns? As far as PAL research - did they settle a great spy?

Re: Techs - Construction for Calendar is fine, and he's willing to give us the very favorable Music-Drama trade with RB getting the artist. I'd certainly agree to both.

[mostly-harmless]

Nice message.

We should tell them to go up the western coast of their continent to meet Imperio. Sure, we are not really keen of those two meeting, but we want to be nice chaps.

Construction vs. Calendar seems perfect.

Agree on NAP starting now.

As far as PAL research - did they settle a great spy?

The great Spy was a Rabbit thing. Banana has just amassed 99% of their all-time-epts towards PAL.

mh

[Sullla]

I agree, the current Banana player seems fairly competent, if not an expert. The previous management though, oy...

Thanks for the heads up. Since we are working together, I can tell you that we are signed into a 60-turn NAP with PAL, which will last until Turn 167. When I took over the team, I had come this close to attacking their poorly defended cities on our border. It was so tempting knowing they were probably front-lining everything at the Rabbits, but now our NAP with them will allow us some room to breathe and hopefully get back into the game.

Whoever signed this was smoking some pungent weed. PAL went to war with Rabbits on T95, so this agreement was inked after the war was in place. Stupidity of the highest order imaginable. It was basically waving the white flag and saying, "go ahead PAL! We're going to let you completely dominate our continent! Have fun!"

Can you imagine if Templars, Rabbits, and the original Banana team had all started on one continent?