Team Info and Contacts - Banana

[Swiss Pauli]

Yes indeed, Dreylin, I think that's an excellent suggestion

[Swiss Pauli]

To answer my own question:

See Research requires 0.75 * (100 + target's EP). So 0.75 * (100 + 209) = 232.

With 394, Banana are pretty comfortable until PAL starts to ramp up EPs from courthouses, but it doesn't hurt to remind them, as they probably gained this much advantage by default (meeting fewer civs).

[Swiss Pauli]

Excellent. I'll be brief as well. I will send Iron immediately, which you can have until Turn 124 (or 123? me no care...). Thanks for working with us on these points.

Talk soon,
Donovan

I'll log in and make/accept gifts.

[Swiss Pauli]

Or maybe not. I hope it's mh (I couldn't get any sense of of Realms_Beyond at civstats) so I PMd him...

[Swiss Pauli]

Deals made on T114 (see turnplayer thread).

[Zeviz]

Swiss' message with Dreylin's modification sounds good.

[Swiss Pauli]

Here's an updated version of an email to Banana:

Hi Team Banana,

Following up on our earlier discussions, we'd like to present our current ideas for you to consider:

In the short-term, we find ourselves threatened by Imperio's Jumbos & Cats, so we're learning HBR and Construction. If a worried Team Templar contacts you when they see that we possess these techs, please assure them that we pursuing this path to defend ourselves from Imperio, not to attack them. We've not been successful in persuading Templars of our peaceful intentions, in spite of offering them a long term NAP.

Concerning Templars, it was clear from your coordination of discovery of MC & Machinery that you have worked together with them before. If we can bring them into a three-way research block, maybe together we can start to challenge Imperio & PAL's domination? Do you think this could work?

Regarding our own NAP, we would suggest inclusion of an auto-renewal clause: i.e. after 30 of 40 turns, if neither side notifies the other of a desire to cancel the agreement, it would automatically renew for 20 turns. This ensures at least a 10turn "notice period" of intent to cancel the agreement, and saves the bother of re-negotiating the agreement as it nears expiry.

Regarding Horses: assuming we are not in dire need ourselves at the time they will be made available to you upon request. Our metal would also be available, should something untoward happen to your supply. Another future proposal we'd like to discuss, would be a post-Guilds deal whereby we gift you our Horses for a period to allow you to train Knights, then you return the favour by gift us Iron for us to do likewise.
either...
(a) As to Calendar and Music, we're happy to research Calendar ourselves as we have resources requiring plantations and to trade it to you for Music (the GA compensating you for the extra beakers).
or...
(b) As to Calendar and Music, we're happy to research Music ourselves and trade it to you for Calendar (the GA compensating us for the extra beakers).
or...
(c) As to Calendar and Music, we're interest in sorting out a deal here, but we're still discussing this internally. Shall we review the situation when you've completed Compass?

Finally, to return to Philosophy for a moment. If PAL are learning this tech, it's possible that they are planning an early move for Nationalism, with the intention of drafting an army to annihilate you. As a first suggestion, we recommend you focus sufficient Espionage spending on PAL in order to maintain visibility of their research. Forewarned is forearmed, as they say!

Best Regards

Swiss Pauli

We need to decide on the Calendar-Music options. Right now, I favour (c) in order to send out the email ASAP, and thereby maintain the momentum we have in diplomacy with Banana.

Get voting, people!

[Sullla]

Hmmm. Calendar has much more practicality and trade value, but Music would get us a Great Artist (assuming we could land it first). I would be OK going either way. Keep in mind that our economy is much stronger now than Banana's, so if we're doing true co-operation, we should probably be researching the more expensive techs, or we'll be waiting for quite a while for them to catch up!

We could also simply ask them what they prefer too, by combining options a) and b), if we don't have a clear preference:

(a) As to Calendar and Music, we're happy to research Calendar ourselves as we have resources requiring plantations and to trade it to you for Music (the GA compensating you for the extra beakers).
or...
(b) As to Calendar and Music, we're happy to research Music ourselves and trade it to you for Calendar (the GA compensating us for the extra beakers).

We could just tell them to pick which option they prefer, after all. But let's see if there's a strong preference for one or the other from the rest of the team first.

[Swiss Pauli]

Alternatively, we could go for (c) and mention that Music would take 7 turns and Calendar 4 at break-even, and ask for their ETAs, so we can 'work out the best solution' (and gain some valuable info on their economy). Remember that Banana is running REP, so they may prove surprisingly good techers for a 4 city empire. Or maybe not

[mostly-harmless]

We have to keep in mind that we provide Imperio (the tech leader) with Literature this turn. They will probably land the GA at Music earlier than us, if we decide to go to Music.

Personally I would prefer us to go for calendar ourselves, whenever it suits our needs (happiness).
One lesson learned from the past months of tech trading is, that the more practicable tech are the ones we should research ourselves and not rely on others.

So I vote a).

mh

[Dreylin]

m_h makes a good point ... although who knows what Imperio will do!?

I agree with a)

[sooooo]

What's the reason behind wanting music? Is there some plan behind getting the sistine chapel?

For me, I'd only want music for the great artist. I see no advantage in researching calendar and trading for music. And the beakers put into music are worth more than the GA IMO. Similiarly, if we do want the GA from music and tech it, it will be of little trade value to the other teams because it's a pointless tech. Why not ask banana to tech something useful instead? There are plenty of good techs out there - we could research paper and ask them to research calendar for example. Or feudalism or engineering. Music just seems low priority to me.

[Swiss Pauli]

@sooooo - I guess you're skimming the thread as Banana specifically mentioned Music and Calendar as techs he was after before embarking on any Feud-Guilds v Paper-Edu deal (Currency was also mentioned).

[Zeviz]

Can we send the email and just say that we are deciding on trading options because our own plans aren't yet set?

[sooooo]

@sooooo - I guess you're skimming the thread as Banana specifically mentioned Music and Calendar as techs he was after before embarking on any Feud-Guilds v Paper-Edu deal (Currency was also mentioned).

Hmm, I read it that he was interested in calendar, music and currency, but I didn't read it that both teams had to research a tech that he was interested in. If he was to research calendar and ourselves something good (like paper, engineering or feudalism) then I think he'd be OK with that.