Team Info and Contacts - Imperio

[Zeviz]

Sounds good.

[Swiss Pauli]

I'm going to send this tonight, so get your objections in ASAP guys

[mostly-harmless]

I think it is too complex.

Why do we need them to declare on Templars? Once we have peace with Imperio we can take on Templars alone. If Imperio is clever they will see that they simply have to declare on Templars to keep up. Making it a requirement, though, is not necessary.

Offering an alliance against PAL and then also saying NAP until Templars are eliminated is not really coming over as trustworthy.

The whole military observer thing and cancellation if armies do not move is not good. Either we trust each other (that's what your proposal is aiming for, right?) or we won't work together.

I said it before, so for the record again, I am against such an proposal in the first place and see the chances of cooperation with Imperio equal zero.

mh

[Zeviz]

I do want a treaty with Imperio, but I would prefer something simpler:

"We get Jericho and Constantinopole. You get the rest of Templar lands. Then we make an alliance until 10 turns after PAL is dead."

However, since Swiss is the one conducting negotiations, I am fine with his draft.

PS I am going to be away for a couple weeks, so this is probably my last post for a while.

[mostly-harmless]

If we have to send anything at all (and I believe there will be a majority that favor it) can we at least keep out any mentioning of who gets what from Templars lands. Imperio has not shown that they are good generals, while our military leaders are very good. So why would we want to limit ourselves to Jericho and Jerusalem. It might take Iperio ages to capture Const, Damaskus & Acre. They are not building any units at all currently. I can see a scenario in which they agree to Swiss' proposal, we capture Jerusalem and then have to watch helplessly how Imperio tries to take three cities.

Keep those specifics out of the message. Sounds them out about the possibilities by mentioning "dividing up Templars lands". That should be enough for now.

mh

[mostly-harmless]

If we have to send anything at all (and I believe there will be a majority that favor it) can we at least keep out any mentioning of who gets what from Templars lands. Imperio has not shown that they are good generals, while our military leaders are very good. So why would we want to limit ourselves to Jericho and Jerusalem. It might take Iperio ages to capture Const, Damaskus & Acre. They are not building any units at all currently. I can see a scenario in which they agree to Swiss' proposal, we capture Jerusalem and then have to watch helplessly how Imperio tries to take three cities.

Keep those specifics out of the message. Sounds them out about the possibilities by mentioning "dividing up Templars lands". That should be enough for now.

mh

[sooooo]

In addition to or instead of or prior to an email, we could simply send them a peace deal in-game and offer drama. How about that? It stops them officially betraying Templars and looks like they are getting something out of the deal. In the 10-turn peace treaty we could easily send our monster stack from outside Cape Town to capture Constantinople and get back in time.

The main reason that I don't think they'll go with Swiss' proposal is that they will surely have a NAP with Templars and not want to betray them. They might just go for a peace deal because they will be thinking that while they are building infrastructure then they could do with not worrying about being in a war. They'll think they can just declare on us again after the peace deal expires. And of course they get drama out of it.

[mostly-harmless]

Worth a shot.

mh

[Swiss Pauli]

We can try the peace offer in game, but that would also be a betrayal of Templars: they'd be selling out Templars for peace with us...we might as well offer 30g just to make it obvious Bear in mind that Templars refused to make peace with us without bringing in Imperio to the settlement. I'd offer a white peace to them in game...they can always add Drama to the mix if they fancy selling out Templar (now we've told them Cape Town is not an option).

Their huge stack ensures the current 'Mexican stand-off' (heh!) at Cape-Chichen, and gives them all the security they need to focus on infra.

[Swiss Pauli]

If we have to send anything at all (and I believe there will be a majority that favor it) can we at least keep out any mentioning of who gets what from Templars lands. Imperio has not shown that they are good generals, while our military leaders are very good. So why would we want to limit ourselves to Jericho and Jerusalem. It might take Iperio ages to capture Const, Damaskus & Acre. They are not building any units at all currently. I can see a scenario in which they agree to Swiss' proposal, we capture Jerusalem and then have to watch helplessly how Imperio tries to take three cities.

Keep those specifics out of the message. Sounds them out about the possibilities by mentioning "dividing up Templars lands". That should be enough for now.

mh

The reason we need to give Imperio more than we take is to get them to agree to ally with us. They can see that we have more cities (and a higher score), and they are scared of us. Look how we caught them up in military tech, and overtook them in power! We need to offer a deal that they see as being in their favour, and which they feel gives them enough new cities to be able to stand up to us if we betray them.

And we already offered them those cities in a previous email, so we can't backtrack now without looking like exactly the kind of hypocritical opportunists who would backstab them given half a chance.

Going back to the trust point from your earlier post: we have to earn each others trust, hence the military observers. These observers will also be able to provide intel on how they are attacking, so we can give them military tips if needed (and we'll have give them tips if we want to take on PAL with them as allies).

[mostly-harmless]

And we already offered them those cities in a previous email, so we can't backtrack now without looking like exactly the kind of hypocritical opportunists who would backstab them given half a chance.

The situation has changed. All previous offers are obviously off the table. You don't expect us to honor an offer we made months ago?

This would be like:
We sent your offer. We get no response (as usual). We capture Jerusalem and destroy most of Templars units in the process and arch towards Const. All of a sudden Imperio says "Ah that offer you sent us back then, promising us Const, Damaskus & Acre, we take it now. PLease stand down your army."

Surely not!

mh

[sunrise089]

Their huge stack ensures the current 'Mexican stand-off' (heh!) at Cape-Chichen, and gives them all the security they need to focus on infra.

Only in the short term. If we wreck the Templar stack in the south and can send all of our forces forward, how well will Templars survive? If nothing else we can pillage the heck out of them and should be able to force peace. The moment peace with Templars occurs Imperio's land is all sorts of vulnerable.

Anyways, I agree with M_H 100%...I prefer no message as long as the war is going well, and if we do send one, I'm fine for peace concessions like drama or a happy resource or something, but not the agreement to split up cities.

[Dreylin]

Well how about we just send something kind-of ominous and see how they react?

Imperio,

We have taken Jericho and secured it with minimal losses. You have now seen what we can do; how long do you think Templars will be able to hold out? We invite you again to join us to take on PAL.

TeamRB.

[Sullla]

Hehe, I like the directness of that one, Dreylin.

I'm with sunrise and mostly_harmless. We're no longer in a position where we have to hold out inducements to Imperio. By all means offer them the chance to join us in our war, but we don't need any bribes offered. Not anymore. Templars are collapsing before our eyes, and we'll soon be able to take on Imperio with no problems. Either they see the writing on the wall and jump off a sinking ship, or we'll continue on to Mutal and Lakamha after we finish with Jerusalem and Constantinople.

[sooooo]

I really don't think they want to betray Templars as directly as that. Their morals will prevent them turning on Templars. Signing peace with us for drama will have a similar result to betraying them, but I think there's much more of a chance that the deal will go through. It's not a direct attack on them. Sullla, are you opposed to an in-game peace deal for drama?