Correspondance Thread - PAL

[Chuckman]

I would rather agree to their original suggestions now rather than go to war. We do not know what is on the other side of them. They claim we are the only 2 on this island. If that is not the case we may be faced with 2 enemies as opposed to one. If what they say is true, 2 cooperative financial civs on the other island could be big trouble for us.

If they don't want open borders than lets plop cities 3, 4 and 5 on their doorstep and force them to expand to the south. That would also deny them the elephants and allow us to back fill the rest of our side of this landmass. Although if we want to do this we will need our Rathaus sooner rather than latter. Maybe an Oracle slingshot to Code of Laws.

These are probably strategic discussion that need their own thread which I don't have time to create at this moment.

[Lancer]

If they do not let us pass then we can't determine if what they say is true unless we build a boat.

If we attack and face two civs then...

1) They were lying.

2) We would likely have faced two civs anyway whetether we attack or they do and if so we can safely assume that these are delaying tactics they are using to prepare their attack.

3) If they are preparing their attack building archers in prep to break through to determine the truth might actually be the very prep we should be doing if we actually had a clue to their true intentions.


That said, nobody has ever accused me of not being paranoid.

If they deny both our messages there's a fair chance they are up to something.

We need a boat.

[theViking]

Originally posted by Lancer

We need a boat.

(Will only take 4 turns).

[Zoid]

Originally posted by Chuckman
I would rather agree to their original suggestions now rather than go to war. We do not know what is on the other side of them. They claim we are the only 2 on this island. If that is not the case we may be faced with 2 enemies as opposed to one. If what they say is true, 2 cooperative financial civs on the other island could be big trouble for us.

If they don't want open borders than lets plop cities 3, 4 and 5 on their doorstep and force them to expand to the south. That would also deny them the elephants and allow us to back fill the rest of our side of this landmass. Although if we want to do this we will need our Rathaus sooner rather than latter. Maybe an Oracle slingshot to Code of Laws.

These are probably strategic discussion that need their own thread which I don't have time to create at this moment.

There's no way in hell we can agree to their original suggestions. if they don't want to play ball we'll wipe 'em out (or at least harass the living bejeezus out of them)

[RobWorham]

Sent via GMail :

Whiplash,
We thank you for your response. It is unfortunate that we could not found our relationship upon co-operation. So unfortunate that we thought it worth giving it another go. There are other ways that we can explore beyond your civ, such as a naval vessel. If we must do this however it does away with this opportunity to establish an early friendship between our civs which could grow into trade, mutual defense, as well as further world exploration now only in its earliest stage. For instance we could share a good bit of intel developed by our scouts that you have only not to help, but merely to permit passage. True, we give nothing at this time, but you lose nothing and there is so much potential that we thought it worth another chance to mutually benefit.
Wabbit Diplomatic Services

[GeoModder]

Lancer, their espionage output compared to ours reveals they're in contact with one other civ (at least). Its consistently half of our espionage output.

[UnOrthOdOx]

Perhaps it would behoove us to explain that we know they are lying, and kindly ask them to cut the crap.

[Lancer]

Viking, good to know, thanks.

Zoid, I agree. If the time comes we do a vote, count me in the group that seeks revision to their silly proposal or war.

Rob, thank you. After sleeping on it I think they're leading us on a fools errand but its one we really need to go on in the interests of peace and advancement while we prepare for the war they might well be planning. I suggest we listen to UnOrthOdOx and Plato and any readiness related production discussions on the table.


Geo, that's B R I L L I A N T. Excellent piece of detective work and a much needed bit of intel. Please share how you determine it.

UnOrthOdOx, I would suggest we ask them straight out what we already know. "Are there any other civs on the other side of yours on this landmass?" I also suggest we don't let them know they are lying to us, (If they do, and I think it likely they will) appear to believe whatever they tell us and lead them on as they have been us. Then, we go high gear toward war, while at the same time using that developing ability to protect
our borders and buttercups from the barbarians who are starting to piss me, for one, off. What do you think?

So folks, how about sending that question either now or when we recieve back their reply? Is there anything else or anything better we should send...or even better to send nothing? My vote...send the question.

With 2 civs generating sci and in collusion vs us, they could well be advanced. So, we must assume they could soon hit us by sea and possibly with axmen, a sobering thought. Could someone theorize on how to best attack us? A sudden dashing blow from the sea catching us with our pants down is my worst case at this point. What might it look like? What other ways and with what might they come at us? Any plan to take a war to them must consider that they could end run us if they have sailing.

I'm not going to be around for much of today as myself and a pal...erm, bud... are heading to the next town to pick up some lumber for a deck we'll be building on his place. Ought to be a fun project but it will take most of the day getting the stuff. So have fun with this...

[Lancer]

Hmm, something...

Does whip actually say there is only 2 Civs on the landmass? If not, that's kind of hopeful.

quote:

Team Rabbit,

At this point we are reluctant to allow your scout to pass our borders. As much as we would like to maintain strong diplomatic relations with your team; we feel that allowing you to gain inteligence regarding the map may prove to be disadvantageous to us at a later time.

We can understand your concerns regarding making an alliance so early. But we feel the earlier such a decision is made the greater the advantage – tech duplication with a future ally is something we are adamant to avoid; and increasing the chance of grabbing all the best wonders within the alliance, the early ones are the best one.

We are a little concerned unless this island starts to coordinate early, it would be extremely difficult to keep up with 2 financial civs working together and thus having a head start on all wonders.

Yes there is an element of risk, but if we don’t progress this soon, we are relying on the other island not working together early, which makes us a little nervous.

whiplash of PAL

[FeMme]

Let's not get hasty about calling other teams liars. It is well likely that the other team PAL are in contact with are on the other continent as there is only a 2 square strait between the 2 landmasses. This would be easily overcome with cultural borders by now or scouted with using a workboat.

[FeMme]

One thing I've noticed from past relations with PAL is that they are extremely proficient in 'reading' the demographic screen. From this they can determine what techs, units and resources other teams have among other things. Something to keep in mind.

[GeoModder]

Originally posted by Lancer
Geo, that's B R I L L I A N T. Excellent piece of detective work and a much needed bit of intel. Please share how you determine it.

I already explained the second turn after we discovered PAL.
A palace gives 4 points each turn, and while we were racing ahead of them at 4 points/turn, they only countered with 2 points/turn. Since this early in the game it is impossible to have a lesser output then 4 points/turn, they are splitting their output between two civs, thus telling us they know at least one other civ.
You can see it for yourself by highlighting the PAL name in the civlist on the bottom right of the screen.

Originally posted by FeMme
One thing I've noticed from past relations with PAL is that they are extremely proficient in 'reading' the demographic screen. From this they can determine what techs, units and resources other teams have among other things. Something to keep in mind.

The kind of techs researched can be figured out by the score jumps on a new turn (the score goes by era IIRC). Power strength increases can be determined by the number of extra soldiers in the power graph, since most unit classes have a specific number of 'soldiers' in them in the game background. On resources I have no idea, besides the diplomatic screen which is pretty much straight forward.

Don't ask me to keep an eye on the first two, I know it can be done but can't be bothered to spent much energy on that kind of info.

[UnOrthOdOx]

Yeah, techs and unit type estimates are fairly simple to figure out.

(Don't forget some techs and improvements add soldiers too)

[GeoModder]

Improvements? That's new for me.
Ah, forts maybe?

[UnOrthOdOx]

I should have said city buildings and wonders. But forts might...if you can get someone to build some....


Didn't think so.