RELIGION (ver1.1) hosted by Stefu

[Black Dragon]

Kris: Simple.

Say a city is 60% Glorckism, 30% Atheist, 10% Gewism

Said city could get:
+6% growth
+3% science and 15% of city becomes unhappy, which an a city of 10 would mean 2 more unhappy people.
+1% Industry

Or perhaps, to make religon have more of an effect:

+12% growth
+6% science
+2% industry

[Ecce Homo]

Multiple religions can exist without micromanagement if they are AI-controlled. (I mentioned this idea about 50 posts ago.)

Each religion missions, builds places of worships and collect tithes in cities belonging to different civs. They strive to get as many believers as possible.

The civs' rulers can promote religions to state religions, tax them or persecute them.

[Francis]

I got the AI-controlled part. But I still think mocro-management would come into play in trying to maximize the science/trade/production of cities by trying to affect the religious mix in the way you desire. Whether by promoting one to state religion, using "missionary" units, building temples or other improvements to aid the desired religion (or "cathedrals of learning" if you like, they have such a building at Carnegie Mellon or U of Pittsburgh I think)--I dunno, seems like taking it that far adds too much complexity. But I guess this might be a question of how people like to play the game.

I've recently been thinking (again, I should probably post this elsewhere) that the game should have optional levels of complexity. With religion, perhaps the simple level is the one state/cultural religion per civ. With the complexity button clicked, you can engage in micro-religious management.

[CormacMacArt]

That is another reason not to have "benenfits" attached to the different religions. With each AI religion attempting to effect change by prostyltizing or manipulation of a friendly civ, there will be enough interaction for us to deal with.

I second Ecce Homo. All in favor?

[Kris Huysmans]

Francis English is my third language. So I don't know when you must use must or could. Excuse me when I looked like a tyran but I have not much feeling with English.

[CormacMacArt]

You MUST eat.
You COULD eat fish.

[Kris Huysmans]

My idea is that because communism don't treath religion well all the benefits will become penaties(exemple a +2 grown benevit will become a -2 grown penatie)
Expect atheïsm wich will gets a extra benefit(Quite all the communistic gouvernements were atheïstic)

<font size=1 color=444444>[This message has been edited by Kris Huysmans (edited June 11, 1999).]</font>

[paraclet]

Yes I support Ecce Homo...Having AI managing religions is great...Like that a part of history can be respected and there cannot be christians before 33 ac or moslems before 500ac...
If you are Moslem and play te game, in order not to have suddenly christianity appearing in your territory, we should have an option at the beginning of the game saying : your civ will be in a : Christian influenced zone, moslem influenced zone, buddhist influenced zone, etc...(problem with jewish influenced zone because Jesus was born jew...but it can be solved by , when choosing "jewish oriented zone" having the possibility to have like in real story the first christians appearing inside your country...
And Black Dragon, it's precisely because peasants were abused by religion and political powers associated that they didn't revolt you are right But that's not happyness !!! It's "endure sadness and misery you will be happy after death"...
What a lie and an hypocrisy!...Happyness is right now...That's why philosophers said reliigion is people opium"...
And Cormac Mac Art I am a specialist in religions (that's why I am atheist...) and yes you have some sects making Buddha a god...but that's a betrayal of the real teaching of Buddha...Read it ! It's allways good to go at the origin of any religion...
Usually it's very different of what peoples misguided by priests believe...
Like the Bible which was an atheist book because in Hebrew's original Bible they use the name Elohim which was wrongly translated by god...And it means extra-terrestrials and not god and is plural...(see www.rael.org)
By the way this religion shpould also be included: the Raelians : they believe that life on earth was created genetically by an advance extra terrestrial civilisation...A third way after god's creation and atheist evolution...No more stupid than the two others as we start cloning mammals...

[Black Dragon]

paraclet: "Happiness" in civ isn't really a measure of how happy they are, or how good their life is. That's why when their are more unhappy than happy they throw the city in disorder, not simply be more whiny. Happy represents support your gov., content is indifferent, and Unhappy means against. So atheism should have a "happiness" penalty.

I think I like paraclet's ideas of "zones", such as if a city is majority Turywenzist, it simply gets +1 economy, or majority Moochianity, it gets the police bonus.

[NotLikeTea]

I've about had it up to HERE with all your Turywenzism bashing, Black Dragon!

(Sorry.. trying to lighten up the conversation here)

[Kris Huysmans]

It is a true that the buddism religion don't believe in a person that determinide ower live and that has created the universum. But they well believe in something that is higher then the self because they think that the self is an illusion. And they also believe that when you give happy to others they will give happy to you and when you give unhappy to others they will give unhappy to you. And when I hear atheïsm then I don't think about persons that believe in a fair universum what has as highest goal enlightenment for everyone.

[Kris Huysmans]

Let we go back to the game. A game is made to be fun and not learn you of there is a god or not. So please Stop saying "My believe is better then you believe". Because this had no connection with the game.


<font size=1 color=444444>[This message has been edited by Kris Huysmans (edited June 11, 1999).]</font>

[Kris Huysmans]

I sugest that misionaries(not only your misionaries but olso they that are controlled by the religion AI) maybe should have a moral factor witch its based on:
<ul>[*]Temple or not a temple[*]Is it a state religion or a forbidden religion[*]Your governement type [*]Has this religion used atrocities in the past(bombs, ...)?[*]How much of the people in the home city are from this religion ?[/list]


<font size=1 color=444444>[This message has been edited by Kris Huysmans (edited June 11, 1999).]</font>

[CormacMacArt]

Paraclet - listen, I would love to debate religion with you. Tell you what, I will put in a topic under your name in the off topic section, OK? There you can explain to me the existance of gods in the story of Buddah's enlightenment.

[Bigcivfan]

I think that religion should be expanded in Civ III because a majority of human interactions throughout World History were based on religion. I like the idea at the top of the thread which applied attributes when you invented a religion. Perhaps a system where you started with a balanced religion and giving it strengths in one area gave it deficiencies in another. Also a list of particulars should be included for the player to choose from, such as Caste System or Human Sacrifice (gasp!!!), that give bonuses and penalties. The ideas on holy shrines, religious interaction, and missionaries and Conviction/Devotion rates are excellent ideas that add another interesting demension to the game. I think that actual religions of the world should not be used as this could be offensive to people, being that religion is a very sacred topic. How about when more and more science is discovered, (Biology, Anthropolgy) more and more percent of the world become athiest. This reduces the bonuses that a religion gives you, put also offsets penalties, such as relations. However, a civ can attempt to suppress athieism as they can attempt to suppress a religion....