Deity for beginners.

[Txurce]

Vmxa1, you're probably right in the end. However, I did posit some basic approaches which I think beginning deity players could employ without much difficulty. In other words, I didn't mean beginners to Civ3, but beginners at the highest level.

[vmxa1]

Cool, I suspect that many players that have not played at above Regent or Monarch would not mind a very detail run down on how to do Deity. Most of what I see is very generic, Rex a bunch, trade, get the GL, etc. That is not going to help so much if you are being overwhelmed. Large chunks of most games are some what obvious as to what comes next, but they have several key points where a lull comes in and how to make the best use of that time is not so apparent.
example of what I am talking about.
Say you just made Middle Ages and have the GL and nothing else for wonders. You have just gotten some techs from the GL and are in Republic. You stopped a gang up of say 4 civs and are at war with one now. You have a few cities that can build troops or structures. What is you optimal move? Say city is size 5 and can build Market - 3x, Library - 2x, Court - 2x, Aqueduct -3x, Granary - 2x. I think the other issue would be how to best use your workers? When you should irriagate and when you should mine and where, what about the roads. So I envison a log, a periodic saves of the game as the best trainer. Alas that is no mean undertaking.

[Txurce]

You're right that most advice is generic, probably because the more specific it becomes, the less universal it is. But you point to a stage of the game - "the lull" - where one's peaceful or cold-war options are relatively varied... certainly in a micro sense. This is what I intend to focus on in my future deity games - maybe playing the same midddle game over and over. The goal would be to catch up technologically in a more pro-active manner, rather than my present strategy, which is to take advantage of the very long game clock.

My guess is that the "answer" is a game-specific mixed bag, because the AI can outproduce you in the deity middle game in almost every case. Narrowing that gap would seemingly call for a combination of strategies, from building infrastructure and a key wonder or two, to active diplomatic troublemaking.

[punkbass2000]

Originally posted by Txurce
Punkbass, I'd be very interested in reviewing a peaceful deity win, as long as it's not v. 1.29, which I can't open. My question had to do with the number of cities needed for a spaceship win on deity - my guess is 15, minimum. I wondered how you presumably got that many without warmongering, since standard-settings AI tend to not let you peacefully expand to that degree.

Sorry it took so long, but here it is.

[jshelr]

During a business road trip, I've been disabling the SS as a way to cope with Deity inspired by this thread. Turning off the SS represents a middle level between Emperor and full Deity that is significantly easier.

1) You definitely have a good chance to win any game when you survive to the industrial era
2) The only thing you can do better than the AI is fight. So, fight a lot.
3) If you can't keep the AI fighting among themselves, you face a much, much, much more uphill task. The purpose of middle game wars (as opposed to laying low and waiting for the tech tree to be completed) is to ****** AI progress. This often works, but diplomacy is key.

I've found that artillery plus tanks, defended by MI, is the key military tactic that gives the human player an advantage in the late going. (I wonder if Germany isn't a good civ for this type of game. They would be hard to get by the early survival period by very effective once panzers are available.) The AI doesn't know how to attack an advanced civ with RR and lots of arty to wear down a stack. So, if you are big enough have a chance by the modern era, you are also relatively invulnerable. I've also found that religious civs have the critical flexiblity to go back and forth between monarchy and democracy -- the Deity AI stays on communism between frequent wars, even India does.

For my own games, I've kept the map small and used pangea or large continents. It's a must to be near more than one AI civ or the cost of tech trading soars and the AI civ near you has no one else to crush. Also, there is little glamour in hacking your way through a large map in the late going.

I think, maybe someone can confirm, that tech trading is more costly on the new patch. That means Deity is even harder than before, because the human player is always the one trying to trade from behind.

[Txurce]

Jshelr, your approach makes a lot of sense to me. The middle game in deity is arguably the most interesting, in that it's very fluid, and very much about adapting to a particular game's circumstances. I only play on standard settings, but can confirm that this approach works just as well there.

I can't confirm whether buying tech is harder because it's more expensive on 1.29... but what seems different from my vantage point is that the AI has raised its minimum price to other AI. This is an advantage to the human player, because once you get close, there is greater opportunity to trade a tech you bought to a slower civ... they're not always bunchede up at the top.

[Catt]

Originally posted by jshelr
I think, maybe someone can confirm, that tech trading is more costly on the new patch. That means Deity is even harder than before, because the human player is always the one trying to trade from behind.

It's not a straight increase in cost - but it essentially works that way. Unlike under previous versions, I keep seeing a handful of tech leaders and several backwards civs -- used to be a lot of fairly close (tech-wise) civs.

I haven't decided if it makes Deity harder or easier - I think is makes Emperor and Monarch easier for the human simply becuase pure research seems more viable -- i.e., the investment in libraries and universities actually provides a return.

I don't play on Deity often enough to say with certainty, but I am less certain about advantage or disadvantage for the human player. On the one hand, techs play as they are more expensive, and so it is harder to catch up through buying techs - both due to the higher "cost," and due to less-pronounced tech devaluations -- backward civs don't cause the tech to devalue. On the other hand, it seems as if there are always a few punching bags that you can use as GL generators and/or "terrain preparers" for your expansion plans -- you needn't always worry about any one of 7 - 10 technologically advanced civs deciding that your little patch of grass would go well with its decorating scheme. So, again without any certainty, I get the sense that 1.29f Deity means (1) harder tech tree climbs, but (2) fewer scary opponents.

I still don't enjoy it as much as Emperor and Monarch, though.

Thoughts from those who play on Deity a lot?

Catt

[vmxa1]

bump

[TommyGunn]

*Bump*

Rubs head

[Jawa Jocky]

Do we have an "Emperor for Idiots" thread?

[Txurce]

No, but it's a really good idea. I think there is a basic approach to Emperor that would work even for idiots.

[vmxa1]

I bumped it as someone was looking for the thread and did not have it to link at the time. Hope your head is ok.

[Txurce]

The same goes for your selective sense of humor.

[TommyGunn]

With all the info out there I feel somewhat ready to jump to Diety. I don't finish games anymore on warlord. I get to a point and then it gets boring.