Deity for beginners.

[Gen.Dragolen]

Txurce,

I was surprised that the Egyptians hadn't pulled out the Nukes after you took Memphis.

I concur with Arrian that the Iroquois must be the next victim. An amphibious operation should be able to give you a chance to block the Chinese in their toe-holds.

As for how to deal with China and England, it looks you will need to play them off each other if possible. One or the other has to be missing some luxuries or resources. That may at least allow you to break any alliances between the two. After your dealings with the late Egyptians, I don't think an alliance with one is possible.

One curious question: with so few cities, how did England build a fistfull of very expensive ICBM's ?

In the mean time, while preparing for the Iroquois campaign, I would start rush building cultural imporvements in the border cities if they are close to a luxury or resource. You should be able to peacefully aquire them to allow greater production for yourself.

Otherwise, you have two options left: the SDI wonder and out build them all or invasion. If you can locate the ICBM's using embassey/espionage, you might capture them or at least destroy them before they could retaliate for the invasion.

Too bad you couldn't just steal them, eh ? Never a 00 agent when you need one.

D.

[punkbass2000]

Hey, I haven't been around for a while, but I was just curious if anyone else has defeated deity without war.

[Txurce]

Life is what happens while you make other plans, as I soon found out. While I built temples in all my new cities, saved my gold to buy the next tech on the ladder, and painted crosshairs on the Iroquois, the Chinese signed an MPP with England. I hoped they would gang up on the weak Iroquois, but in 1770 - five turns after the world's powers were reduced to four - China attacked me from their five central continental cities. They didn't get anywhere, and I used my armies to take four of their cities and destroy the fifth on my next turn. (I also captured 13 stealth bombers.) England promptly declared war, and now here I am, recalculating my situation. So much for my hopes of continuing to be a puppetmaster!

On the plus side, the quick victory and lack of borders means I should be able to keep warring in democracy. I intend to avoid war with the Iroquois, since they are my only source of tech, and staying in democracy maximizes my tech-buying income. At this point, I think not antagonizing my enemies while racing for SDI is the wise move.

Dragolen asks where the English got all those ICBMs... and I have a question of my own: what have those two island powers been building for the last couple of centuries, while I caught up? My suspicion is that it's a lot of MI, and a fair share of nukes. I learned in "Babylon and on" that multiple armies are the best way to crack massive numbers of MI, but in my current defenseless state, I think I have to respect those nukes. What do you guys think?

In the meantime, I expect a lot of naval shelling from the two island powers, and my navy presently consists of one transport. I am preparing a defense for this that I learned from the AI a long time ago, but have never used: combined arms. One or two bombers and a destroyer can instantly neutralize a pillaging vessel, and the casualties are negligible. (Naval shelling is rarely critical, but the AI humiliated me one game with this tactic.) I already have the bombers, thanks to China, so all I need now is some destroyers.

I don't think I can generate enough culture for any purpose other than to connect my borders. What else could I do? Given the havoc I wreaked in Egypt, I don't think blowing a GL on a palace move would benefit me much. Should I start spying? Dragolen's suggestion that I neutralize the nukes is very tempting... but can I afford it?

[Gen.Dragolen]

Txurce,

It becomes a question of can you afford not to ?

As for dealing with the Chinese and English navies, may I suggest Cruise Missles. In sufficient quantity, they can sink a large number of ships that stray too close to your coastal cities.

And you definitely need to start spying on your enemies: if you can determine where the nukes are stored, it would be worth sacraficing a couple of armies in a suicide mission that would save your best cities if you can't complete the SDI in time. Personally, I would not build it as it will only stop some of the ICBM's, not all.

I can't remember if they are less expensive that destroyers, but definitely build a couple of subs: you need to be able to see enemy nuclear subs near your coast, and then you can use detroyers to finish them.

What you might want to consider is that the only safe time to assualt the islands is when they are trying to invade your continent. At least then their forces will be scattered and you can bee-line for the nukes and hope that you don't have to take out 100+MI to get at them...

Good luck and good hunting.


D.

[Txurce]

On the verge.

Defending against the Chinese and English

My strategy after the Chinese attacked and I took all of their central continental cities was to not be too aggressive, and hope that nuke fever had died down. The Chinese landed about two dozen units and lost them in one turn. I started building destroyers, and did very well in fending off naval pillaging with the one-two punch of stealth bombers and destroyers. The Chinese paid 100 gold for peace in 1782, and after losing a couple of ships, so did the English in 1786.

The end of the Iroquois

Still eager for action, the Chinese promptly attacked the Iroquois from their remaining continental cities in 1788. This coincided perfectly with my expansion plans, and I took two cities and destroyed a third in my first turn, while opportunistic England joined in. I had two primary goals - taking Salamanca and Philadelphia, whose combined wonders included both Bach and the Chapel. Philadelphia was the tossup, because it was adjacent to the Chinese border. My armies barely made it on the next turn, and I was able to seal off the Chinese with an armored wall (they were ignoring my borders). I then took Salanca and the rest of the Iroquois lands in the next five turns - conserving units by mainly using armies - and finished them off in 1802.

Preparing for the final conflict

I now have Battlefield Medicine and the happiness wonders to fight a mid-length war on foreign soil. I am amassing a small ICBM arsenal, a good amount of destroyers, and more armies than I have ever seen. On Gen. Dragolen's advice, I foresook SDI - not effective enough given my many needs, and I still wouldn't have it - and also planted spies in both China and England during my brief war with them, and have the gold to inspect all of their cities.

My assumption is that England will be easier to take than China, so my plan is to load my armies into transports, sail them over, and then inspect each of the English cities. My initial attack will focus on the ones that have nuclear weapons. Once I'm past that hurdle, England should be easy, as I can methodically chew up its cities with my armies.

Unless their MPP expires soon, China will declare war on me. I will respond by taking China's continental cities as quickly as possible, and then fend off any future invasions with my bombers, destroyers, and the MA that took those cities. The question is: will China nuke me? I haven't fired off a nuke yet, and don't expect to. The alternative is to inspect their cities as well, and attack their nuclear weapons at the same time I do those of England's. For me to pull this off, I'd need to wait and build a lot more units, so I lean against it. Am I taking too big a risk?

[Arrian]

Well-played, Txurce! Time for the endgame.

To quote Raiders of the Lost Ark - "Shoot zem. Shoot zem both."

-Arrian

[Catt]

Txurce - I obviously don't know what prompted the nuclear exchange in your game, but way back in 1.16 or 1.17 I discovered that razing an enemy's cities would prompt an AI first strike with nuclear weapons, whereas if I took and held enemy cities (and refrained from using nukes myself), a first strike never came - even as I was rolling over the enemy's lands conventionally.

I don't know if this has chjanged at all in 1.21 (you're on a Mac, right?) or if the nuclear trigger finger is already itchy because of previous use, but perhaps if you avoid razing any Chinese cities you can forestall the use of Chinese nukes.

Well-played.

[Jaybe]

Originally posted by Txurce
... Are you suggesting that I steal their military plans? I've only done this once before in all the games I've played. It makes a lot of sense here - think it's worth saving my pennies to do so?

(No, I was only referring to planting the spy to get their accurate military strength. I haven't ever stolen military plans yet, since with a spy I can "investigate city" just before launching an attack on it (in the same turn). I don't know how long the "steal plans" lasts, and with rails I don't appreciate its value.)

Edit: I had made this reply after seeing your question, before reading the remainder of this very interesting history.

[Txurce]

Catt, Egypt nuked a city I took from them after screwing them on a treaty for the third time (and in the same turn). England then nuked Egypt, and Egypt nuked England and a second city I took from them. That neither China nor England nuked me in our brief war (which they initiated) is a good sign that I won't suffer a first strike... but is there an itchy-trigger-finger factor built into the game?

Arrian, I have a response in the works to this, based on your advice that I "shoot zem both." Details to follow.

[Jaybe]

Txurce, an "obvious" warning:
Don't have all your eggs in one basket (city), e.g., stealth bombers. You're probably aware of and using a defense in depth, and I am sure you have stationed your Armies OUTSIDE the blast radius of your cities, not stacked.

[Catt]

Originally posted by Jaybe
Txurce, an "obvious" warning:
Don't have all your eggs in one basket (city), e.g., stealth bombers. You're probably aware of and using a defense in depth, and I am sure you have stationed your Armies OUTSIDE the blast radius of your cities, not stacked.

A very good reminder! I haven't gotten into the ICBM-stage of the game for some time, and have fallen into the habit of keeping my offensive forces stationed in one central city during peacetime so I know where they all are at any given moment - a very bad idea once nukes make their debut.

Txurce - don't know about an itchy-trigger-finger affect in the game, but it has been my experience that once the first nuke flies, subsequent usage seems to be more palatable (haven't had a nuclear exchange in a long time though, many patches ago).

Catt

[Arrian]

Catt,

That wasn't exactly "advice." It just seemed like the thing to say I would actually probably focus on one (England) until they were done and then deal with the other. I don't like dividing my forces or my attention, unless I have near-ultimate power. You don't have that... not on Diety.

The thing is that they just don't have very many cities (either one of them, but particularly England). Therefore, all it takes to cripple them is a nuke-driven blitz that takes and razes their best cities. At that point, their empires are FUBAR.

This calls for marines. Nuke a chosen coastal city, take it with marines, and then bring in your land force, unload, and use those three moves to strike inland (more nukes will soften those targets as well). The objective, obviously, is maximum damage to the enemy on turn 1 of the war. Units in the field mean almost nothing. It's destroying their cities that counts.

-Arrian

[Theseus]

Great job Txurce!!

You've got to be awfully close to the domination limit.

Taking out England will definitely do the job... I'd more or less follow Arrian's advice, focusing on Newcastle, Oxford, Canterbury, York, and Nottingham for the Marine strike, followed by a same-turn capture of Warwick. Then place your MA attack stacks on hills or mountains within 3 moves of the next target cities, wait one turn and its buh-bye for Lizzie.

[Lord Merciless]

I think you can wipe out England in one turn:
1. Nuke following 4 cities: Nottingham, New Castle, Hastings, and Liverpool.
2. Assign the majority of your invasion force to Nottingham. Once on land, you can take cities in the following order: Nottingham -> Coventry -> London -> York and Nottingham -> Warwick.
3. The landing force at New Castle has to take the cities Oxford and Canterbury.
4. You don't need large forces for Hasting and Liverpool, just enough units to pacify the city.

Your MAs have to take six cities, your Nukes and Marines the other four. I assume that 20 MAs per city will be required, so it means a minimum of 120 MAs. I would add 20 more MAs as reserve here. How the Nukes would work out is a big question mark, so I would bring along enough Marines just in case there are defenders still alive in the coastal cities. Personally, I would assign 15 Marines for each city.

Your total invasion force now amounts to 140 MAs and 60 Marines, plus 25 Transports and their escorts.

Finally, you need to plant a spy in England. You can simply use "Investigate City" options to calculate your actual troop deployment.

[Theseus]

Doh!!

What was I thinking... RAILS and ROADS!!

LM is right, one turn.

However, why not nuke everything, and use many fewer MAs?