Deity for beginners.

[Theseus]

LM, how about military alliances against Persia? Are Greece or India NOT in MPPs with Persia? You certainly have the gold for it, and there is obviously no reason to be worried about your rep (for not partaking... you stay strictly defensive).

If nothing else, it will misdirect Persian production.

[Catt]

LM - even though Soren said that the AI would be more efficient about the SS win, I still haven't seen them going all out for a launch (one game I played they still researched Recycling, for instance). If you just concentrate on the SS, you should almost surely win -- I'd also suggest cranking up your science - that 18,000 gold and healthy surplus won't do much for you at the end of the game, and if you can get techs like Synthetic Fibers down to 4 - 5 turns instead of 10, the game should be a lock.

If Persia is a Democracy, I would definitely consider spearking a war if the SS looked risky - the goal being to stay out of the fighting, but saddle Xerxes with military production needs and a hoped-for government change in the face of war weariness. A healthy amount of MI, MA, transports and escorts ready to go and raze Persepolis (sp?) in the event that the SS looks dicey would also be prudent .

Catt

[Txurce]

Punkbass, I'd be very interested in reviewing a peaceful deity win, as long as it's not v. 1.29, which I can't open. My question had to do with the number of cities needed for a spaceship win on deity - my guess is 15, minimum. I wondered how you presumably got that many without warmongering, since standard-settings AI tend to not let you peacefully expand to that degree.

[Lord Merciless]

Persia is no longer in Democracy, but in Communism, since it's at war with both Zulus and Romans. But Xerxes makes a good living by embezzelling techs to Iroquois, Babylonians, and Indians. And those guys seem quite chicken about joining an alliance against the Persians.

Fortunately, I have the UN in my hand, because I tried to get a vote just for fun and was soundly defeated there. The option of AI winning diplomatically is closed.

My spy in Persia tells me that they have about 90 MIs and 1 Tactical Nukes. Their home continent has 11 cities with about 5 MIs defending each on average. Some of the bigger cities, such as Persepolis, have more, while some smaller cities like Arbela have only 2. If I assign 15 MAs to attack each city, including 6 MA Armies on Persepolis, would they be enough?

[Gen.Dragolen]

Lord Merciless,

I would try and put in a few more: only having 3:1 units superiority isn't going to be enough to do the deed quickly. I'd try to make the most important targets (nukes, luxuries, wonders, etc) have a 5:1 superiority.

Persepolis is a forgone conclusion, but to snare the rest of the cities, you will need a second turn to move re-enforcments left over from the other cities where you couldn't get 5:1 superiority. Just have to let the MA's dig in and wait a turn or two before finishing the Persians. This would also prevent any of their MI going to help protect your the primary targets. Gotta love the simple things in life: divide and conquer.

D.

[punkbass2000]

Originally posted by Txurce
Punkbass, I'd be very interested in reviewing a peaceful deity win, as long as it's not v. 1.29, which I can't open. My question had to do with the number of cities needed for a spaceship win on deity - my guess is 15, minimum. I wondered how you presumably got that many without warmongering, since standard-settings AI tend to not let you peacefully expand to that degree.

I'll be glad to post it next week, it's 1.21. I haven't played Civ3 for about a month, largely due to the fact that I beat Deity peacefully and took up Ceaser III . That's also partially why I haven't been around recently.

[Lord Merciless]

I have finally reached the D-Day in 1766AD. Prior to that, I have executed the following steps:
- Researched Miniaturization in 6 turns and greatly improved the productivity of my coastal cities.
- Signed a ROP with Persians 11 turns before the invasion.
- Paid 30 gpt to the Persians 7 turns before the invasion to keep them happy.
- Signed a MPP with Persians 4 turns before the invasion and give a luxury resource to fool them.
- It took me another 8 turns to reach Synthetic Fiber.
- A total of 252 MAs have been produced, of which 210 will be deployed against Persians.

The objective of the invasion is to capture all Persian cities on its main island in 1 turn, and to deny Persians access to both oil and uranium. 4 MAs will be assigned to each defending MI in a city. Persepolis itself will be attacked by 6 MA Armies. Since Persia has signed MPP with at least 2 other nations, including the third most-powerful civ Iroquois and the pesky Babylonians, this initial wave of attack must cripple them in 1 turn.

As for allies on my side, India and America will definitely be in. If I can get Romans on board against both Iroquois and Persians, the game is won.

In the current turn, I have unloaded all of my MAs on the largest 2 Persian islands. My cruise missiles are all in position to strike at the Persian fleet. It will be a great firework.

[jshelr]

Just wanted to thank you for this post. I've been oscillating between easy wins on Emperor and getting my butt kicked on Deity for weeks. This gives me some fresh ideas, particularly the critical importance of hyper- early warmongering, then being peaceful for a long time, in order to become barbaric in the modern era again.

[Txurce]

That's why I started playing deity as well - it's more fun for me being challenged. This approach provides a pretty secure base for domination wins with no spaceship option. It needs refinement if the spaceship option is left open, because the AI sometimes launches surprisingly early in more peaceful games: 1500 AD in my first one. I'm finishing the other game I posted (no spaceship), then will start playing with the option on. That means figuring out a way to research more quickly, which probably means more early expansion. I look forward to the experiment!

[jshelr]

Latest Deity game went well in the beginning by limiting early city founding to 4 sites only and building barracks for a very early Egyptian UU rush. Trimmed Germany and France back and got key techs as per hopes. However, the peaceful Mr Gandhi soared off to a tech lead in the middle ages. Do you agree that, most times, you have to be willing to attack the tech leader and get alliances from others to do it. If you don't create war conditions, no matter how good your early land grab was, your economy won't keep up with the Deity tech pace and the SS race will be lost. I'm just amazed that anyone can win a peaceful Deity game, unless the AI spending the whole game at war and leave you alone.

[Txurce]

As I said, it's tougher to win a SS race... and even tougher when someone pulls ahead. There's no way I've found to keep up in the tech race after education (even if you snag the GL with a leader), unless the AI civs stay close to each other, and you have luxuries and resources to trade. By the way, acquiring resources in the early rush really pays off later, and so does keeping a sterling repotation, so you can trade these for techs.

I think you have to trim India's sails as well. If you don't have a border with them, by all means figure out how to form a grand alliance against them as soon as possible, then focus on infrastructure while the others fight. (One option could be buying a tech from India, then offering it in exchange for an alliance against them!) If you do have a border with India, secure it as best you can, maybe overloading it with all of your defenders, so they won't bother with you. Then see if you get an opportunity down the road to scavenge one of their cities, once they're exhausted.

[Lord Merciless]

The only way to win on Deity is warmongering, from the very beginning until the very end.

[Txurce]

I agree with your perspective, LM, except for when you can't. Which in my case seems to center on the middle of the game... a window I'm trying to close.

[Lord Merciless]

Well, I was simplifying things a little bit. There are periods in which you have to cease hostilities and develop your civ. It's also a good idea to terminate wars during eras in which defensive units are dominating.

[jshelr]

Of course, the problem with terminating hostilities is that the AI civ then takes off into the tech stratosphere. Maybe what's neat about this level is that there is no one way to play that usually wins. I like the way Gandhi dials me up on the turn before he launches just to show he has researched the last SS tech and to stick his tough out at me. Real nasty personality.