Timeline for the ultra-early Archer rush

[Mountain Sage]

Sir Ralph,

Tanks for your input. Now I begin to see the differences of playing... 1 continent with 5 Civs= small Pangea, therefore an Archer rush. Makes perfect sense.
I usually play on archipelagos, so unless you give your Archers some swimming suits...
But then again, since the first Tech I research is map Making, why not build the Archers, then crash-build the Galleys?.
The main problem I have is that (too) often I'm perfectly happy with my island. With a C-T-T-C disposition, I cram more cities than the AI and therefore I get a better output. Then I build a strong fleet +later aircraft (not if I can avoid it) and play the PP (Perfect Peacenik).

One question: how do you cope with the military expenses vs. gold vs. Tech research ? Once you have Republic and a 40-50 military (for the next war) plus one new city improvement I usually can't make money enough to research in 4-5 turns. Last time I disbanded my 40+ Horsemen once I conquered the Egyptians (at least I got those temples and barracks started!), stayed without a military for 30 turns and built improvements like crazy, then I re-created an army of Knights to go for the Germans. Not the best way, I suppose...

[Yahweh Sabaoth]

The more neighbors the merrier in terms of archer rushes... I mean, after all, those little buggers can't get too far, now can they?

One bit of advice I've noticed for archer rushing on a huge map: if you take someone on early, try to wipe them out. Otherwise, if there's another neighbor you want to "prune," you may find the discontent broiling in your empire at an unhealthy level. It's very satisfying to take the bulk of, say, 3 neighbors, but it's quite unsatisfying to then find yourself making advances every 14 turns instead of every 8, with a deficit, and chronic unrest.

[Harovan]

Originally posted by Mountain Sage
One question: how do you cope with the military expenses vs. gold vs. Tech research ? Once you have Republic and a 40-50 military (for the next war) plus one new city improvement I usually can't make money enough to research in 4-5 turns. Last time I disbanded my 40+ Horsemen once I conquered the Egyptians (at least I got those temples and barracks started!), stayed without a military for 30 turns and built improvements like crazy, then I re-created an army of Knights to go for the Germans. Not the best way, I suppose...

Well, that's not exactly the question for an archer rush thread, because I the time I get a Republic is usually about 40-60 turns after the time of the archer attacks.

My approach is: Use the time from 2000BC to approx. 10BC to prune your neighbors, one by one. Stay in Despotism. Don't wipe them out (yes, Yahweh), unless they stop to give you something useful. The first round of pruning gives you the richest prey. Maps, techs, gold, cities. While you go for the next neighbor, your former target will build 2 or 3 new cities for you, which you can capture or extort in the next round. If you wiped the civ out, you'd have to build the settlers yourselves. Depending on map size and civ distribution, you'll make about 2 or 3 "rounds" of pruning. Each war 5-10 turns. After you get the appropriate techs and resources, reinforce your armies with swordsmen and horsemen.

During this pruning, you still are in Despotism and upkeep ain't an issue. After you finished, you are by far the biggest civ. Now, after switching to Republic, you can disband all obsolete military units. This are your remaining archers (longbowmen are usually not worth the upkeep) and all remaining regulars. If you still have too many units, disband swordsmen. Don't disband horsemen, unless you have far too many. They have with knights and cavalry 2 good upgrades to go, while swordsmen have only the mediocre medieval infantry and the largely useless guerillas.

EDIT: One more hint: Don't disband elites, even archers! I've made leaders with them by finishing off wounded units till the industrial age.

[Arrian]

EDIT: One more hint: Don't disband elites, even archers! I've made leaders with them by finishing off wounded units till the industrial age.

Absolutely. I'd go farther and say don't upgrade elites. I've gotten leaders from elite horsemen fighting alongside Cavalry. The AI often fields its old, obselete units in battle, so you can use your old, obselete (but elite!) units to kill them.

-Arrian

[Yahweh Sabaoth]

Maybe you all could shed some light on how to avoid the crippling economic effects of continuously launching war.

I'm all in favor of pruning if your neighbors have something to give you. Otherwise, I want to wipe them out before they can sell what they might develop to a friendlier civ...

But Sir Ralph, if you could teach me someway to avoid the chronic discontent and huge deficits while still launching continuous, small-scale wars, I'd be more than happy to change my all-or-almost-all-or-nothing strategy.

[Theseus]

Republic, luxuries, and marketplaces. Happiness GWs, as well, obviously, but given enough luxuries I can stay at war almost continuously (on Emperor).

[Master Zen]

Originally posted by Yahweh Sabaoth
Maybe you all could shed some light on how to avoid the crippling economic effects of continuously launching war.

I'm all in favor of pruning if your neighbors have something to give you. Otherwise, I want to wipe them out before they can sell what they might develop to a friendlier civ...

But Sir Ralph, if you could teach me someway to avoid the chronic discontent and huge deficits while still launching continuous, small-scale wars, I'd be more than happy to change my all-or-almost-all-or-nothing strategy.

In the early age if I am continuously at war I pump up my happiness to about 20%, usually that is enough, I drop tech to 0% and simply buy or extort all techs I am not getting.

Get JS Bachs Cathedral, helps wonders. (hmm... pun )

I usually try to avoid messy wars with everyone and instead concentrate my strenght against one neighbor and wipe him out completely.

My latest game is remarkably similar to Sir Ralph's: France, huge, emperor. I started on the largest continent, flanked by the Germans on the south, the Brits to the north and the Persians north of England but with various settlements in my borders. Germany's territory was huge, they soon became the dominant power. Germany actually started very far so I did not consider Archer-rushing them, it would have been impossible. England was a target but I decided to halt their REXing since they were sandwitched even worse than me. Didn't really work, I was small but consolidated. When I got horses, I started building horsemen like crazy, not with the intention of using them, but to upgrade them to Knights. Once this happened, I went to war with Germany, took 30+ cities and wiped them out. I've been the dominant civ since then.

I also got a huge amount of luxuries which further helps the war machine.

If anyone wants the last .sav (I haven't finished the game actually) I'll gladly post it



MZ

[Harovan]

Yahweh: As Theseus and Master Zen already pointed out,

- Luxuries, the more the better, at least 3 on monarch, 4 on emperor
- Marketplaces, Temples, Cathedrals, may be Colosseums
- Happiness wonders like the Sistine, although in large empires Bach's is even better, because you probably won't build a Cathedral in some marginal cities
- In the time you are acquiring and building the above, use the luxury slider

[RGBVideo]

huge maps take too long...though interesing, I prefer shorter games.

Try playing huge maps with 800Mhz/128Mt RAM.

[RGBVideo]

One more hint: Don't disband elites, even archers! I've made leaders with them by finishing off wounded units till the industrial age.

Thank You, with capital letters. I've always upgraded my elites, will try this in next games

[RGBVideo]

Why, it actually... works?

[badams52]

Originally posted by Tuomerehu

Try playing huge maps with 800Mhz/128Mt RAM.

It's not the machine...okay maybe it is the machine, but I've learned that I can play an entire small map game in one 8-10 hour day whereas if I play a huge map...it just takes too long for enjoyment.

I don't like the downtime between playing civ where all I do is think about my next moves.

[Mountain Sage]

Originally posted by Mad Bomber
An Archer rush on a huge map? Fu-git-about-it!

Well, to contradict you. But I just did an Archer rush on AU207 with my French. Poor Babylonians

Sir Ralph, thanks again for your input.

Unfortunately, I also had to destroy the Zulus later on. And I wanted to play the PP (Perfect Peacenik)

I thought I was Arrian's Gimini Cricket
But between him, Sir Ralph and all the others...

This evening, instead of playing Civ, I'll watch the last episode of 'Gimini Cricket goes downhill...'

[Yahweh Sabaoth]

Well, I'm sorry, but my real question still hasn't been answered.

I know that building marketplaces, cathedrals, etc., are the key to offsetting unhappiness... luxuries are key, of course...

...but by the time I'm building CATHEDRALS, I've got something better to rush my neighbors with than archers!!!

The "crippling economic state" I was referring to was what seemed to me to be an unnaturally high level of discontent, even WITH marketplaces and tons of luxuries hooked up, or colosseums, etc.

I never have this problem if I wait until Chivalry (or maybe used MW or GS or a like unit) to take my neighbors out, one at a time, and entirely.

I was referring to the "pruning" process, specially with archers. After so much pruning, even HEAVY pruning, I can often end up with a miserable populace.

I can only assume that this has to do with breaking treaties, going to war with a 20-turn interval, or something related. But maybe someone can elucidate me?

[Harovan]

Perhaps we didn't understand what you mean. We thought you were referring to war weariness. What "discontent" are you talking about? Your economy? Or the attitude of the others towards you? And what, by your definition, is a miserable populace?