Strategy Notes From Vel - The Early Game....

[Skanky Burns]

Originally posted by Anunikoba
I wonder if the lumberjacking inconsistencies has to do with borders. Perhaps production netted from cleared forests has to be done within your borders?

I would also like clarification on this aspect. Others whom ive asked said they couldnt get the wonders produced faster from lumberjacking, but Vel said that he could. Sometimes. Id love to test this for myself, but infogames decided i would have to wait until the 19th

So find out for me

[Drago Sinio]

Lumberjacking

I havent fully tested it out, but according to my notes , when you cut down a forest it returns 10 shields to the nearby city. And When you disband a military unit it returns only two or three shields.

So if you cut down two forests, and disband ten warriors, that would be 40 shields or so, which should shave about 3 or four turns off building a Wonder.

[DaveV]

On early exploration: the impact of fast exploring units is HUGE. Unlike earlier games, two-move units appear to be able to move onto high-cost terrain every time with their second move. So you can move plains, mountain or grass, hill. Finishing your move on high ground helps reveal more land. I really like the expansionist civs and the Aztecs for this reason. Knowledge (of the map) is power. Expansionists seem to be much less likely to pop barbs out of a hut; the jaguar warrior has a good chance against them. Once I popped three barb warriors out of a hut on forest; my jaguar warrior survived all three attacks and was promoted to veteran status.

Because early tech progress is so slow, techs from huts are a tremendous boost. They also give you something to trade to the AIs for their techs. And a settler or a city from a hut can double your empire size in the crucial early going.

[Lord Maxwell]

I never got the 10 shields from a cut down forest to apply to a wonder. But that's not really a problem, say that you want a wonder in your capital. Reasonably your capital doesn't have a courthouse, so you can lumberjack the courthouse to full, and then switch to a wonder and let it run from there.

Off course, on deity you don't get to build wonders. (At 150AD I am about to enter the medieval period. The AI civs are about to go industrial.)

[Whiplashr]

Disbanding a troop does not add shields to a wonder I'm
afraid (someone said that above). I wasn't sure about the
forest clearing trick, somone on usenet said it worked but
I haven't tried it. I have however tried to disband units
into a wonder. It gives no bonus shields. They thought of
all these possiblities apparently. The ONLY way I can see
to hurry a wonder is with a leader. Although, I do like
the last idea of starting something that you can rush
which takes a lot of shields, disbanding units and so
forth till it is nearly done, and then switch it over to a
wonder. That sounds like it could help.

Jim

[Jack_www]

I started a game with the Romans on the large world map with 7 civs. I started out in North Africa near the middle east. The English started out in south Africa and the French in the north a well on the coat of the Mediterranean. What did was went to war really early with the English and French, using the Roman special unit the legion. I was not able to get any English cities, but I was able to get a French city, I tried to take their capital at this time but failed. I then made peace with the French. After this I focused all of my military actions on the French. When they tried to spread down further into Africa I followed their settler with a legion, then right after they built a city I got it. It was so easy. I then made peace with them again and bought anther city form them when we signed the peace treaty. When I got knights and catapults I then attack their capital again, and I was able to get it. By the time I was done I had control of all of North Africa. When I got calvary I then turned my attention to the English in the south. So far I have captured three of their cities. I think if one wants to limit the expansion of the computer to pick a civ who gets a special unit early in the game and attack the computer while they have a few cities.



Right now in my game I am about one tech ahead of all the computer players, I have the largest population, and about third in world power. I think once I crush the English(which I have boxed in in South Africa) I will most likely be the most powerful civ. So this method has worked well for me.

[Deaghidh]

BTW Vel, your Lorraine AAR has been AAR of the week at the EU site for almost a month now People are really begging for you to continue.

[Grunthex]

Originally posted by Lord Maxwell
I never got the 10 shields from a cut down forest to apply to a wonder. But that's not really a problem, say that you want a wonder in your capital. Reasonably your capital doesn't have a courthouse, so you can lumberjack the courthouse to full, and then switch to a wonder and let it run from there.

Off course, on deity you don't get to build wonders. (At 150AD I am about to enter the medieval period. The AI civs are about to go industrial.)

Maxwell, that's GENIUS! The courthouse bit that is. Massively useful for grabbing the early wonders (pre-industrial)

[yin26]

Very nice work, Vel! As always. God, I wish I had more playing time ... I'd like to help out here more.

[Simpson II]

I don't have the game yet, so ignore my random mumblings, but I feel the need for some methodone...

:b Nice notes on early builds from everyone. Building mines on grassland is definitely a big change, heh.

And I like the idea of the culture bomb! I've been wondering for a while if you could turn your whole civ into one.

I recall hearing that the size of the food box hits a limit at 40. Sooo, if you were to build a granary rather than a settler then, under despotism, a city of any size would grow just as fast as a size one without a granary... and under any other government it will grow much faster, because of all that nice irrigated land. So it appears there's no penalty for having a small civ early in the game, *assuming* you can control happiness. With some luxury goods that might even be true. Certainly at the lower levels most people are mostly using it should be ok up to size 5/6.

Now, the AI expansion will eventually hit you, and your massively superior culture will inevitably overwhelm their nearest cities (well. you can hope.) Now, your 'core' cities should be growing like wildfire and hitting the limits at which you need aquaducts. So you can start churning out lovely cheap workers and transfering pop to your new cities, rush build temples, hopefully gain the cultural drop on the *next* round of cities too... so you build, say, 4 cities to start with and perhaps end up with 10-12? And because you were able to start your development very early, you should have the advantage in terms of wonders as well as pop.

The pattern in which you expand would be truly wierd, too. Rather than trying to cut off the AI you would want to maximise the intertwining of your cities. Potentially a dangerous game...

Or, on the militaristic side...

A size one/two with a granary ought to grow with only 10 food! So, keep your cities small, and use forced labour to get 40 shields (is this correct?) for every 10 food you collect. If you can conquer/build the pyramids then you can do this immediately in conquered cities, too... your conquest should then be an absolute blaze of fire across the map.

But overall it looks like the game is well balanced between expansion and perfectionism, and between military and peaceful means. Sounds great! Now if only the distributors weren't such a bunch of

[Solver]

Good job Vel, but you just beat me to it! I also made my firsdt notices on the game, but didn't want to post them before they take some decent shape .

[Fistandantilus]

Originally posted by jimmytrick
Lt. Col. jtrick, COC, ret.

Are you really still using that sig, jt?

[Kinjiru]

If you find yourself positioned such that there is a narrows between you and a rival civ, you can easily thwart the AI's expansion, on all but Diety levels.

1) Build up a fair number of military units near the narrows.

2) Let the rival civ establish a city at or near the narrows.

3) Rush in and capture the city.

4) Raze the city to the ground.

5) Pull back your units.

6) Wait a short while, usually less than 10 turns and watch the rival civ establish another city at the same spot.

7) Repeat steps 3 through 6.

For some reason, the AI will invariably attempt to keep settling the same spot, to detriment of their expansion elsewhere.

While this 'strategy' is something of a cheat, it sure feels good to do it when the Romans and Greeks keep teaming up against you game after game...

[Travathian]

How to rush build wonders, kinda.

Chose an expensive city improvement. Disband units til it gets to two turns left NOT one, then switch to the Wonder. If you rush build the improvement or disband units til it gets to one turn left, you can't switch production to a wonder. But this still allows the opportunity to shave off those precious turns.

[Barry Brenesal]

Originally posted by Travathian
How to rush build wonders, kinda.

Chose an expensive city improvement. Disband units til it gets to two turns left NOT one, then switch to the Wonder. If you rush build the improvement or disband units til it gets to one turn left, you can't switch production to a wonder. But this still allows the opportunity to shave off those precious turns.

But in Civ3, switching between a city improvement and a Wonder entails a large loss of accumulated production.