War weariness carryover

[Dominae]

My point is just that such a test would not necessarily give accurate results, because Soren himself stated that WW has a value which has a "history". Thus starting up a fresh Scenario would not provide the whole story.


Dominae

[joncnunn]

Catt, I only play on Tiny maps. 20 units in the same place is a large stack on that scale when you consider the much lower city and unit counts on that scale. I drafted an Infentry from every city I had on that land mass when I saw that stack, with a second round of drafting on a couple of border cities. Yes, he had some Riflemen that crossed over as well, but those were picked off via weakening via a bombardment followed by a Calvary unit killing them and returning to safety.

That same war featured on turn 1 the destruction of all enemy calvary during the first 2 turns. (Those that invaded on turn 1 failed to reach any of my cities and were mowed down by my own Calvary.) The second wave on turn 2 went directly to a city, attacked it, and were slaughtered as they charged in with no loses on my part.

(Perhaps it's citizens especally hate for you to lose units defending a city rather than the city simply being attacked.) That was a fairly small stack of 6. I had 9 or 10 defenders there.

I can't say if enemy pillaging has any effect because that infentry stack didn't bother to pillage but kept on marching around my own city with it's stack about half it's size in favor of marching towards the city I on purpose left no military units in (but was connected to by rail.)

[Catt]

Originally posted by Dominae
My point is just that such a test would not necessarily give accurate results, because Soren himself stated that WW has a value which has a "history". Thus starting up a fresh Scenario would not provide the whole story.

Ah - sorry, I misunderstood. Such a test would only be intended to confirm or deny whether enemy troops in territory contributes to WW -- with no combat or other contributing factors, it would only confirm or deny, and would not measure relative weight of the factor.

A poster named Fitz and I tried to construct some tests under an earlier version of vanilla civ -- but the then-editor's inability to place starting units, cities, etc. made it darn near impossible to isolate and test individual WW factors. It always struck me as essential to get a handle on individual factors before trying to decipher the whole formula, and since we can't control AI moves (combat, invasion, etc.) and since WW doesn't seem to be present in MP games (preventing hotseat tests), it still seems impossible to control all variables well enough to start to get one's arms around the entire WW calculation.

Catt

[joncnunn]

Can indivudal units be placed in the PTW editor?

[Catt]

@joncnunn - I'm really not trying to pick on you or argue that enemy units in home territory is a devastating WW inducer - I just think that there is an awful lot of guess work out there on WW and not very many hard facts. As I have long had an abiding interest in WW, I tend to look critically at definitive statements regarding WW (perhaps too critically ) that are based on either (1) pure opinion, or (2) our necessarily limited game experience where a whole mess of different factors interplay together to eventually produce visible WW effects. In such an environment we can't always be sure what is the most important factor, let alone what my be a factor at all. I have a bunch of guesses, as most of us do I suspect, but I also have game experiences that seem to cut in different directions on the same issue.

Catt

[joncnunn]

My experences with WW in 8 games is Consistent as a Republic / Democracy:

1. War in Name only : (No real fighting) : I've never experenced any WW doing this. I've been in (but not fought) in 4 of these. (3 in the same game.)

2. Defensive wars : I've also never experenced any negative WW doing this. I'd say I've fought about 5 of these: The one with the heaviest fighting is posted above.

3. Overrunning the opposition with little looses on my side : Limited WW effects, easily handled via luxary slider. There also seems to be somewhat more WW if the opposition had more units I had to kill than if they had fewer units. I'm counting 3 of these.

4. Lots of casualties on both sides in enemy territory : Severe WW problems, even if I'm winning and even if they are increasing access to luxaries. I'm counting 3 of these as well.