Best AI I have ever seen hands down!

[DeepO]

Originally posted by Ethelred
The AI does have some special advantages though. It knows the resources position on the maps before they have the tech for the resource. I am pretty sure they have to actualy mapped the area but they may have a knowledge of the resources even before they have done the mapping. That point is not certain.

I agree on all points, except this one. I believe it to be a myth (I posted some prooflike thing in another thread), it more is a matter of bad luck and an artifact of the AI city spacing scheme.

There is one other thing that the AI has an advantage over humans, which has more to do with the possibility of the AI to be very meticulous: the AI knows at the moment that barb camps spawn on known, but darkened tiles (I mean within the second level of Fog of War) where they are. But, humans can see this too. If you take any unit, drag a movement line, and then go over all covered (but known) tiles, sometimes you see that you can't move there, and the line will disappear. This is because there is something in there that won't let you enter that tile (without a fight). Many times, this is a barb camp.

Humans don't go around chasing all covered tiles until they see there is something there, but for the AI this is easy, it has a map of restricted tiles, and if these don't match with what is known of cities-units, there is a barb camp. I'm fairly certain that this is not the way it works, but as a simplification of an explanation it can count.

DeepO

[Ethelred]

Originally posted by DeepO
I agree on all points, except this one. I believe it to be a myth (I posted some prooflike thing in another thread), it more is a matter of bad luck and an artifact of the AI city spacing scheme.

Someone, I don't remember who, from Firaxis has confirmed that the AI knows where the resources will show up before they have the tech. I guess that was done to encourage the AI to build in places they otherwise wouldn't.

There is one other thing that the AI has an advantage over humans, which has more to do with the possibility of the AI to be very meticulous: the AI knows at the moment that barb camps spawn on known, but darkened tiles (I mean within the second level of Fog of War) where they are. But, humans can see this too.

You can see them too. The reason the AI sees more of them than the player does is due to the way the AI trades for maps. They trade much more often and whenever you trade your map is updated to show the new barbarian emcampments. This may be the reason the AI is willing to pay as much as it sometimes does for maps. It took me a while to notice that I was able to see encampments on parts of the map that I didn't have line of sight for. Perhaps because I didn't trade for maps often enough. I still don't trade all that often but it worth paying more than you might think just so you get the 25 GP for taking an encampment.

If you take any unit, drag a movement line, and then go over all covered (but known) tiles, sometimes you see that you can't move there, and the line will disappear. This is because there is something in there that won't let you enter that tile (without a fight). Many times, this is a barb camp.

This one I hadn't noticed. Thank you.

[DeepO]

Originally posted by Ethelred
Someone, I don't remember who, from Firaxis has confirmed that the AI knows where the resources will show up before they have the tech. I guess that was done to encourage the AI to build in places they otherwise wouldn't.

I would be very happy to see that quote... even if I can more or less understand why the AI is given an extra advantage here, my experience is that in many cases the AIs are a bit off, just like a human can get unlucky in its placement.

The trading of world maps to see barb camps... yeah, forgot to mention that one. but even then they can do it without trading the maps. There is another advantage to map trading: it will make all recent improvements visible. New cities will show up on your map, even without reconaisance or trade, but roads etc. don't. For the AIs path finding, it is imperative that they have a good idea where everything is, they are not so tactical in path finding, making sure they have the shortest path is one of the best things they can do to offset this.

DeepO

[andrewlpc]

lol

dude, your post on the awsome AI fukkn cracked me up... or maybe all these late night civ sessions in a row are making everything funny to me.

I'm not too sure cause my reality is kinda warping a bit

lol!

[PrinceBimz]

Its all funny now but I was really mad while I was playing...LOL Its like you get so into the game and your cities are all perfectly setup and everything is going fine. Then you get a threat from a bigger more powerful nation then you. I am learning to just listen to them and give them what they want. Sometimes I have to, it really depends on my current situation. I find if I am not ready for a war and end up going to war, it ends up being so much worst then what it would have been if I would have just given them what they wanted. Going to war is just not worth it at times especially with a bigger more powerful nation. Most of them time I have to play my game in a realistic fashion that makes sense. If I get crazy I end up in big trouble.

[XOR]

With the list of cheats it seems weird you have forgotten this one:

It also knows what is built in each city. Big cheat? No, no big deal, except I never see my SAM or Coastal fortress do anything because the AI will simply avoid them. I would like to see it go a bit dumber and ignore these improvements until it gets evidence (espionage or combat) of them, just because I would like to see those buildings actually do something sometime (tho I have to admit, this "AI cheat" results in those defenses being excessively effective against the AI because the AI does not even attack against them, while a player might measure his possibilities to overwhelm them).

The AI is definately very good but it still has a few totally silly holes in it's strategies. For example, it should make some more carefull planing or change of aproach style when plan A is proven to fail miserably (massing large number of troops, attack least defended city). I, for example, beat it badly (at war that is) and dont bother in trying to attack unreachable objectives regardless of how tasty or easy the target may seem. The attacking of weak bases somewhere beyond the front line is more a paratrooper type of aproach but paratroopers dont work for anything at all (errr... other than looking really neat). It could also put a fortress and a unit in important resources, somethimes even warriors will do, otherwise the resource can get pillaged very easy with bombing runs. I think there have been intentions of this but something is missing because I have seen the AI put fortresses on resources, just not the units, so in industrial/modern ages even the strongest AI empire is easy prey for anyone that cuts its oil supply.

But the thing the AI is truely truely miserable at is: IT'S BANKRUPT ALL THE TIME. It's a bit annoying sometimes when I try to sell a luxury to the AI and when I click "would you care to offer something?" they offer "World map + 7 Gold" because they dont have anything else to give.

[Ethelred]

Originally posted by XOR
With the list of cheats it seems weird you have forgotten this one:

It also knows what is built in each city. Big cheat? No, no big deal, except I never see my SAM or Coastal fortress do anything because the AI will simply avoid them.

Where did you here that one? I can't say much about SAMs except why did you build them? I never have build on since the game is over by then. Space Ship if for no other reason.

As for Coastal Fortress you're wrong. The AI will attack cities with them BUT they stink for two reasons. One is that they are too friggen weak to do much to any ship. Two they ONLY FIRE when a ship moves from one tile to another WITHIN the zone of controll of the Fortress. This goes for ALL fortresses and any unit, tanks for instance, that have opportunity fire. On top of which you only see the successful attacks and not the failure. Alltogether that means the things are worthless but not due to cheating. The AI usually moves straight in and straigth out which makes inelegible for the opportunity fire because they don't move THROUGH two tiles in one zone of controll.

Now I must admit that I am going on my memory from old games and what remember Firaxis people saying about the Coastal Forts as I haven't built one in while. After all they are pretty worthless and once you get Artillery they are totally not worth having.

But the thing the AI is truely truely miserable at is: IT'S BANKRUPT ALL THE TIME. It's a bit annoying sometimes when I try to sell a luxury to the AI and when I click "would you care to offer something?" they offer "World map + 7 Gold" because they dont have anything else to give.

That mostly in the early game. Late game as well if you are dominating since there simply isn't any money to spare under those conditions. I can get fairly large payments in the industrial age. The AI will pay through the nose for Sanitation and huge sums for Ecology. Just make sure to sell it around.

[XOR]

When I'm Militaristic I get cheap barracks, walls, coastal fortresses, sams. And I end up building SAMs at land borders just because I always buld a fully tightened defense at anything that could be the front line. I dont play to meet the victory conditions, I just play to have fun, and sometimes I decide to have fun with the modern units, even if I have already launched the spaceship. So yes, I build SAMs, sometimes Stealth bombers too (never a stth fighter) and I'm not the only person who builds Radar Artillery.

[vmxa1]

I usually go the the point where all tech is research as I turn of all conditions except DOM/CONQ. It would seem the AI does know what is in your cities. It does not attack my city with Bombers, if it has Sams. It will bypass cities that have Armies. Since spying is not possible as they are broke, what is left? I will upgrade to RA, but they do not seem to do anything useful. Stealth bombers can get pass the AA better than regular bombers. Coastal forts are worthless. You want cheap barracks, grab SunTZU.

[XOR]

You want cheap barracks, grab SunTZU.

I cant wait until I conquer some wonder that might as well be on the other side of the world just to get myself some barracks.

[vmxa1]

Sorry, by grab I was not clear, it meant build. If you take it from someone, it is too late to care about. I do not worry about it myself, just pointing out that barracks do not come cheaper than free.

[Theseus]

I've been noticing lately that I can live without any GW, but upon capturing certain of the empire-wide ones, I am always pleasantly surpirsed at how useful they are.

In picking up Knightblade's game, for instance, having Sun Tzu is a minor blessing, even though playing a militaristic civ.

Back OT: Same game, for some reason there is a wide spectrum of AI civ success. India has been impressive (before I went to town), as has been America (??!!).

I have to say, I marshaled a massive Knight attack on India, and it has been / is a major challenge.

I remain impressed with the AI, although it could still use some oft-discussed tweaks and improvements.

[XOR]

Build a wonder? Bah, a true Warmongerer never builds a wonder, just conquers, my problem is when the same civ builds too many wonders, when that happens I have no option but to raze them because they will flip because of culture. Sometimes I end up having to raze about 6 wonders just because they will filp culture if I dont.

Also, I cant wait until I get to FEUDALISM to have barracks! By the the time Sun Tzu is available I already have all my barracks. I build like 4 to 6 cities. In them I build temples & barracks and nothing else (Tokugawa rulz), rush for Iron in tech, and punish the AI while it's REXing like an idiot (the AI, same as any player, is weak while rexing). Then in the process, I build nothing but temples and barracks in each conquered city, then keep poping out swordmen as if there was no tomorrow, some settlers too because size 1 cites tend to get destroyed and that's a problem. No aqueducts, no libraries, no granaries, nothing. I end up with a swarm of size 6 cities that support 4 units free each under despotism, and I plunder the hell out of those weak REXing suckers until I have decided that I have expanded enough and it's time to build courthouses, marketplaces and aqueducts and start poping out troops againg. Waiting for Sun Tzu to have barracks is for peacefull ostriches.

[XOR]

More on the AI:

The AI doesnt just know where your units and cities are, it does know which units you have in your cities.

For example, it will chose to go to cities less defended and if you have a city defended with 5 offensive units (swordmen), the AI will want to attack that instead of one defended with 2 defensive units (spearmen). It's a bit silly, it counts swordmen as not being defensive even if those swordmen have the same defense as spearmen.

[vmxa1]

I will with hold my admiration for the AI. Last night Hammie sent 28 Calv to one square and 26 INf/Rifle to another square in the same city. No one was fighting at the time so I suspected I was in trouble. I only had about 60 units total. Hammie had another 75 or so Inf in reserve. I asked him to remove and what do you think, he decalres war. I was worried, but not much as I knew he would not send those reserves all at once.

He is why I am not so sure the AI has a clue. I sent as many units as it took to kill all of the Calvs. The other stack was a one move mass and it was two moves from my town. I figured, he can't get to me right away and all of its calvs were gone.

Sure enough Hammie moves those unit next to my city, very dumb. This allowed me to send (RR) my infantry into the city to attack them. This means my units stay in the city after the attack if they survive and not be exposed. A size 12 city with walls and inf is a tough nut to bust without art or tanks.
Hammie lost all of those and would forever sent a handful of units for me to whack, never sent the massive numbers he could have. Another boost to me was I had only made about 4 leaders to that point and after India joined Hammie, I now have about 14 leaders and many nice new cities.