Effects of 1.21f changes?

[Harovan]

Has anyone been able to extort a city on peace renegotiation on 1.21f? I failed so far even with the weakest civs and extorting grassland cities (no resources). Methinks Soren has tweaked his AI in that matter. Oh well, it was imbalancing anyway...

[AJ Corp. The FAIR]

Yes you can extort cities 1.21f

Sir Ralph,

The year is 290 AD (emperor/continents/maps/Japan) and I've just finished my first war (12 swordsmen + 7 warriors reservists as upgrade option) with the Chinese to get more 'Lebensraum' and to secure the horses that were just outside my borders.

After having razed three cities, having conquered Shanghai (Great Leader) that holds the Hanging Gardens and two incenses and after having threatened beijing, I was aiming for peace (free techs ) .

The Ai on 1.21f seems more willingly to trade with me and they offer better deals, imagine that (of course my first game and start conditions were rather good).

The Chinese gave me everything: techs and LOTS OF MONEY PER TURN (which I never got on 1.17f from a heavily beaten up civ) and ONE CITY (first time since before 1.17f!!! )

Final point: what about tech trading? At 290 AD all civs except me (1 tech behind thanks to Chinese) have theology. (I'll buy it and rush the Sistine Chapel with GL ) So is tech trading reduced?
A little bit I guess, alhough I must really hurry now if I want my next war fighting with samurais.

The game 'feels'/seems to be more fun now and significantly easier , but this might be as I've just won my first deity game last week!

AJ

edit: it wasn't a peace renogiation though Sir Ralph, but I suppose same goes up?

[Aeson]

The peace renegotiations have always been somewhat different than end of war negotiations. I haven't been able to install the patch yet (need to finish up a 1.17f game first). I think it's a good thing if the AI won't part with cities in 1.21f for peace renegotiations though! Definitely was an exploit because there were no consequences for doing it, plus it gave away future resource locations.

[Harovan]

Another thing, although it might be simply bad luck. I've played 3 test games so far (ancient era only), all with the expansionist Iroquois on huge continent maps. I've had only in one game one "skilled settler", although I opened lots of huts. Most huts gave me maps or money.

[AJ Corp. The FAIR]

Aeson,

Thanks to the advise of you, Zachriel and others I now know how to conduct renegotiations (active and new buttons, crazy I've hardly noticed them before). I'm going to use it for the first time in my current game versus the Chinese . What is the timing for renegotiation?

1 turn before deal expires?

AJ

PS how do you usually follow up on this (write it down/regularly checking of active deals?)

PPS With this new way of extorting techs from AI's I'll become even stronger than before , especially since I've just learned that selling ROP's can also be very profitable if your empire's rather large
Dr Fell, be prepared for me !

[Harovan]

I use a printed out form with columns of 20 turns each. See attachment, it's quite comfortable if you choose a small font and print it on A4/Letter.

The proper time is after the treaty ended, or even later. The AI seems to part with techs and money if you are strong, but not cities. Overall it feels, that the game is darn good balanced now. Great job, this patch !

[AJ Corp. The FAIR]

Sir Ralph,

I've just tried it. Apparently you can't renegotiate a peace deal after it expires (AI civ will pop up asking for peace, only alternative is warring again).

I reloaded 1 turn before expiration, contacted Chinese, Active deals and ... hurrah, my first renegotiation is a fact!
Peace for another 20 turns. It's a pity though they only give me 1 gold/per turn, although I've beaten them up heavily and they have two techs that I haven't, but thet refuse to give me

Better start building up an army again fast ...
(focussed on marketplaces/cathedrals/colosseums)

AJ

[Harovan]

Sorry I misunderstood you. With renegotiating after a war you're right. You need to renegotiate it before it expires. What I meant was peace renegotiations without a war before. They last 20 turns like a trade and you need to wait till they expire.

[Harovan]

5 ancient ages (huge continents), 2 skilled settlers. The # of settlers out of huts has been certainly reduced. But Expansionist is still powerful, because techs out of huts are much more valuable now that tech trading has been fixed. And there are still plenty techs in the huts.

I found the most astounding undocumented change. I never saw my science advisor happy with his funds, now he is :

[Theseus]

Unbelievable...

Not to start a flame-war, but that is the MOST unrealistic thing I have seen in Civ3!!

[lockstep]

Originally posted by Sir Ralph
I found the most astounding undocumented change. I never saw my science advisor happy with his funds, now he is :

This was actually a bug, and Gramphos pointed it out to Firaxis.

[Skanky Burns]

Good, about time he stopped asking for more than 100% funding!

[Metaliturtle]

I just think it's funny that he looks all stoned in that picture

[Aeson]

The 0 turn war:

I still haven't been able to install the patch, but one interesting thing about peace renegotiations that SirPleb figured out. Seems that the AI will still part with cities if you first cancel the peace treaty, then renegotiate (stay in negotiations after cancelling). You take a bigger hit in reputation though. So at least it's a little more balanced. Of course if you don't care about reputation, nothing has really changed.

[Theseus]

It feels like the AI is a little tougher about it though...