Got my first leader, some advice please..

[Harovan]

Originally posted by vmxa1
It is not a waste, having a GL sitting on his butt is a waste. You can not get another leader if you already have one.

That's not true. We just had 2 GL's at the same time in our succession game (the French). Others reported to have more than 1 GL at the same time too.

EDIT: Things depend also on your style. While also playing Monarch games, I absolutely hate to be at war with everybody in the ancient era. I prefer builder style and make just short decisive wars in due times. I rarely get a leader out of them and if I do, it's just too valuable to be wasted. I'm aware, that a war monger probably gets a leader every 10th turn, but that's not the kind of games I enjoy.

[vmxa1]

It is not a waste, having a GL sitting on his butt is a waste. You can not get another leader if you already have one. It will be a long time from HG to Sistine. By the time Sistine is available I will have another leader, in fact I will likely not need one as I can build the wonder before them anyway by then. Prior to then I can not make a wonder before them (they often get it one turn before me). This is due to having everyone at war with me most of the time, I have now wore them down and they are now seeing that I am hard to beat, so they start in on each other. I am going for Mil Acad and taking cities away, the light are starting to go out for them. True it has been a bugger up till then and some very tough battles and close calls. But once I am in this part of the game, they are doomed. Note I am talking about Monarch/Emp games. Diety is different and not really any fun IMHO and below Regent is a freeroll (for all you poker players).

[Harovan]

Originally posted by vmxa1
You are always looking for happy faces at Monarch or higher levels are you not? Below that level, you can do anything you want as you really can't lose. I am not saying I would go for HG with a leader, it would depend on the level and the status. If that is the only wonder I can make at the time, I will use the leader...

Right, but only one content citizen per city (except for 3 in the city that built the wonder) just to see it getting obsolete with Steam power makes the usage of one of your scarce leaders a waste. Better beeline for Theology and rush the Sistine, that gives +3 content citizens in all cities with a cathedral (a must for both culture and contentment) and never expires.

[vmxa1]

You are always looking for happy faces at Monarch or higher levels are you not? Below that level, you can do anything you want as you really can't lose. I am not saying I would go for HG with a leader, it would depend on the level and the status. If that is the only wonder I can make at the time, I will use the leader. I do not put up FP until a later time as the first 10-12 cities do not need it and the next 6-8 are not strong enough to be sure to hold it and are usually captured cities. Once the second wave (6-8 group) are solid and will not be on the very front lines, then I put up the FP in one of them. This gives its benefits to the max number and puts pressure on the nearby AI cities. Remember I am at war most of the time. If I go 10 turns without a war I will probably start one, I do not want them getting stronger and I want to expand. At this time most land is claimed (std maps or smaller).

[Willem]

Originally posted by Feephi


I used to make a beeline for Literature, too, until I realized that doing so often means you could fall behind in Power relative to other civs. Since the amount of techs you own is a component of Power and your Power has a lot to do with your effectiveness in diplomacy, somtimes it's better to just research the tech that will take the shortest time to complete, regardless of what tech it is.

Well I'm playing Americans, so it doeasn't really make any difference to me what I research. I can get all the techs of the Ancient Era just from the goody huts. In a lot of cases, it's quicker to just wait until I pick up the tech, rather than research it. So I don't really lose out on anything by going for Literature. In fact I'm usually way ahead by the Middle Ages.

[Harovan]

Originally posted by vmxa1
How about Hanging Garden?

Are helpful for the moment, but expire too soon. If you are in need for some happy faces (if you are short with luxuries), grab them, but I would not waste a leader for it.

[vmxa1]

How about Hanging Garden?

[Harovan]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Got my first leader, some advice please..

Originally posted by Willem
But once you get Astronomy, your Galley can end it's turn in a sea square anyway, so what's the point? Granted if you were on an isolated island, I can see the value, but since I play with continents anyway, it's not really worth the effort.

Once I get Astronomy (in the medieval era), I see all those islands already occupied by the civ that built the Great Lighthouse (in the ancient era), unless I am lucky and this civ is at another continent.

But I would never rush an ancient great wonder with a leader though. The first wonder I consider to be worth to be rushed is either the FP or the Sistine.

[Brundlefly]

Yes, it's still one of my favourite Wonders, I usually try to go for it as quickly as possible. And I usually get it to. I'll put off Iron Working and work towards Literature as soon as I have my basic defensive units. I don't get nearly as many free techs as I did in the other civ games though.

I used to make a beeline for Literature, too, until I realized that doing so often means you could fall behind in Power relative to other civs. Since the amount of techs you own is a component of Power and your Power has a lot to do with your effectiveness in diplomacy, somtimes it's better to just research the tech that will take the shortest time to complete, regardless of what tech it is.

[Willem]

Originally posted by Travathian
One reason to build the GL if not for the tech bonus.

In a thousand years, the culture it produces doubles. That is HUGE in the long run.

Yes, it's still one of my favourite Wonders, I usually try to go for it as quickly as possible. And I usually get it to. I'll put off Iron Working and work towards Literature as soon as I have my basic defensive units. I don't get nearly as many free techs as I did in the other civ games though.

[Travathian]

One reason to build the GL if not for the tech bonus.

In a thousand years, the culture it produces doubles. That is HUGE in the long run.

[Willem]

Re: Re: Re: Got my first leader, some advice please..

Originally posted by Sir Ralph


Lighthouse ain't quite useless. With it, you can send your galleys and grab all these crappy islands around your continent, that don't produce much, but make perfect unsinkable aircraft carriers and navy bases later. Many of them are visible only with a seagoing galley. Btw, if you play on archipelago, Lighthouse is a must.

I know, that's not much an issue for a builder (to prevent a complaint, I am a builder myself), but even as builder it's better to own them rather than a potential enemy does.

But Lighthouse ain't worth to be rushed with a leader though.

But once you get Astronomy, your Galley can end it's turn in a sea square anyway, so what's the point? Granted if you were on an isolated island, I can see the value, but since I play with continents anyway, it's not really worth the effort.

[Brundlefly]

Thanks for all the replies!

I guess I'm leaning towards building a wonder. You see, the only land available to expand is a small bit of jungle, so I guess I'll have to expand by acquiring other civ's cities. Great Library gives 6 culture per turn and if I can build that in a city close to another civ, maybe I can culturally acquire a city or two. In addition, Great Library will allow me to focus on maximum cash production until it expires. The only reason why I considered the Lighthouse and the Great Wall was for the possibility of a Golden Age and the culture value they would add. The idea about holding it until FP becomes available was good.

I'm usually a peaceful player. Maybe I wouldn't be playing the Romans to their strengths if I didn't create an army/Heroic Epic and expand by acquiring cities militarily.

[Harovan]

Re: Re: Got my first leader, some advice please..

Originally posted by Willem
If you decide on a wonder, don't bother with Great Lighthouse or Great Wall...

Lighthouse ain't quite useless. With it, you can send your galleys and grab all these crappy islands around your continent, that don't produce much, but make perfect unsinkable aircraft carriers and navy bases later. Many of them are visible only with a seagoing galley. Btw, if you play on archipelago, Lighthouse is a must.

I know, that's not much an issue for a builder (to prevent a complaint, I am a builder myself), but even as builder it's better to own them rather than a potential enemy does.

But Lighthouse ain't worth to be rushed with a leader though.

[Travathian]

I'll disagree with everyone.

Save the GL. Expand like mad. Then use it to build a FP. But this depends on how much land is available, how quickly you can advance the tech tree, and your style of play.

I am a builder, I would rather have the shield/income bonus from my cities than most other wonders. In the long run, its the best wonder of all. But, if you dont imagine you'll be expanding too much this early, then its not worth it, especially if you plan to conquer those around you soon, and might get another GL.

(note: you can have more than one GL)

As a conquerer, I'd wait til Art of War or Sistine Chapel. Once again, if you're going on a conquering spree and might generate another leader, an army is a good choice to remove those pesky first defenders.