Got my first leader, some advice please..

[Duncan Idaho]

Multiple leaders on single turn = possible

PFREMONT reported getting 2 leaders in one turn in the fourth Civ3 tournament, so it's possible.

N.B. He didn't use the first leader prior to getting the second one.

[Hurricane]

Great! Just show me the savegame or a screenshot and I´m convinced.

[gillskill]

This is of course just speculations, and I asked Gillspill to tell if he actually had the two leaders simultaneously.

Yes, there were two leaders at the same time. Looking back over the thread there was about a 32 turn gap between them. One had been left (by the previous player), maybe because there was no GW to build and, like me, they saw that it would have strategically weakened our attack if an army had been made, and then a new one arose in battle.

[Hurricane]

It might be just the way Gillskill decided to write the history. It seems he started the wonder the same turn. He could just as well have rushed the Hanging Gardens with the first leader, and only then got the second one. Since he writes in story-mode it could one way or the other - the end result is the same.

For me it seems just too lucky to be true that you have one leader sitting idle for 40 rounds, then decide to start on a wonder, and immediately get a second leader which you can use to ruch the wonder. To me it seems like the often stated fact that in these cases (when you have had one leader sitting around for a long time) you very fast get a new one as soon as you use the first leader.

This is of course just speculations, and I asked Gillspill to tell if he actually had the two leaders simultaneously.

[Duncan Idaho]

Re: Got my first leader, some advice please..

Originally posted by Feephi
I'm first in Culture, in the middle of the pack in Power rankings.

I'd say capitalize on your cultural advantage. Building the Great Library would boost you to even greater heights, in addition to the tech thing. You can put it in a border city in the direction you want to "expand". Maybe drop the forbidden palace in the same area later, which will help build more cultural improvements.

Thanks for your help!

You're welcome

[Harovan]

It's a succession game. I suggested to use the leader, but the players made other decisions. It's their free will, I respect it. When the turn comes to me and there's still a leader, I'll use it. Also, the 20-40 turns was just guessed. If you want, go to the mentioned thread and count the turns, they are all described.

I never used a leader to hurry up the space race. I take a few of my best cities (per shield output) and let them prebuild ICBMs a few turns before I discover the tech, and then switch.

[vmxa1]

It seems that it is not clear about getting a second leader, if one is idling in a city already. I have not seen it, but that does not make it false, just rare. Those that say they have seen it, only suggest that it is not very common, hence you make my case to use it soon. The claim that you had one for 40 turns and then got another reenforces my idea. I said use it and when you get to the next wonder in 40 or more turns, you may well get another, if not you probably do not need a leader to win the wonder race. Having a 300 shield resource laying around earning nothing, is not the best use. If you bust a 200 or so shield wonder that would have taken 60 turns (example), you would have been able to build a number of things and the wonder in that 60 turns. Which is better: leader idle, build university, market and some otherthing or wonder and all of those items and leader is gone? Inaction and slought are the bain of civ3 above the first two or three levels, you need to be moving and growing. Better yet, you need to be making the others civs shrink, cut down their armies and take their land, this prevents them for beating you in the research and wars.

[Harovan]

Originally posted by Hurricane
Not true. This has been proven to be wrong...

I can't see any prove in that thread, only guesses and suggestions. We just had 2 leaders at the same time in our French succession game, see http://apolyton.net/forums/showthrea...threadid=39424 (gillskill's post 28-01-2002 09:57 GMT, turn 12). We're the French (not militaristic) and are talking about an ancient war with just a few units, not like modern times with dozens or hundreds of units. And we had 2 leaders at the same time. One was parked in a city for roughly 20-40 turns (too lazy to look it up now), because the current players decided not to use him. And in a battle arised a second.

By the way (as you stated in the mentioned thread): I also had recently a leader out of a defensive war. I started with an invasion in modern times by landing 4 infantry at a mountain (to clean up the AI's knights and cavalries). The AI lost LOTs of units, I didn't count, as i had to leave the room for short, and killed 2 infantries. When I came back, I found 2 remaining injured infs and a leader at the mountain.

[Ironikinit]

Tsk tsk. How violent. Why not rush the spaceship parts?

[Hurricane]

Originally posted by Ironikinit
I'd like to have input on what people do with their GLs in the late game, when wonders don't take long to build and often are a little cheesy anyway (Longevity for example). Rush cathedrals in corrupt cities? I can build armies by then with the academy.

In my current game I have got 16 leaders (Iroquis), sometimes two during the same turn, but never had two at once.

I rushed 3 ICBM:s with my latest leaders and blasted China out of the space race.

[Hurricane]

Originally posted by Sir Ralph

The odds of getting a leader out of an elite unit's victory are 1/16 normally, and 1/12 if you're either militaristic or have the Heroic Epic, regardless if there's an existing leader or not.

Not true. This has been proven to be wrong. Check out this thread: http://apolyton.net/forums/showthrea...threadid=36623 . The test by Hurry (me) shows that a second leader was spawned only if the first one was used.

In other words, either you can´t have two leaders at the same time, or then the probability of getting a second one is much lower if you already have one active.

[Ironikinit]

Jeez, I'd really like to see two GLs in the game at once. Several people have vouched for it happening. It just seems odd that I haven't. I often play militaristic civs and getting GLs isn't unusual. I often have 12 or more elites attack each turn in long wars, I just haven't got two at the same time.

I'd like to have input on what people do with their GLs in the late game, when wonders don't take long to build and often are a little cheesy anyway (Longevity for example). Rush cathedrals in corrupt cities? I can build armies by then with the academy.

[Harovan]

Originally posted by Allemand
Sure, you can get two, but the odds are so high against you that it's better to use them right away and lower the odds. I got three GL's in a recent war (never had more than one in play at a time). Would have gotten more, but I saved the last one and that put the odds so high that I didn't get another, although fighting more battles with elite units than I had done to that point.

The odds of getting a leader out of an elite unit's victory are 1/16 normally, and 1/12 if you're either militaristic or have the Heroic Epic, regardless if there's an existing leader or not. There's no guarantee to get a leader even in 100 straight wins of elite units. Your example proves nothing.

[vmxa1]

I never seen a second leader generated while one was in a city (army does not count), since the patch and I have played dozens of games and not seen it, others say it is not possible post patch. If it does happen is rare, really rare and won't change the fact that you have leader worth all lot of shields doing nothing while you go up the tech tree. This could be all hell of a lot of turns. I would prefer to play builder ala civ2, but war is forced on you in civ3. You are not allowed to sit around.

[Allemand]

Sure, you can get two, but the odds are so high against you that it's better to use them right away and lower the odds. I got three GL's in a recent war (never had more than one in play at a time). Would have gotten more, but I saved the last one and that put the odds so high that I didn't get another, although fighting more battles with elite units than I had done to that point.