Got my first leader, some advice please..

[Brundlefly]

I'm playing the Romans and have 14 cities. It's 130 AD, Regent, 14civs, huge map and I'm surrounded by strong Greeks, weak Aztecs, strong Russians, average Iroquois.. I'm first in Culture, in the middle of the pack in Power rankings. Should I: 1) Build an army of legionaries so that I can get the Heroic Epic later or should I: 2) build a Great Wonder -- which one? a) Great Library. 100 shields completed but other civs may be closer; b) Great Lighthouse. No one else has started yet; c) Great Wall. Other civs have been building this for a while. Forbidden Palace is not available yet.

Thanks for your help!

[SanPellegrino]

When I feel the game gets close, I would always take the great lib with a leader. making an army is more just for the fun of it

[Harovan]

1st option. Build an army with your first leader and let it win once (make sure it does). Build the Heroic epic and later the Military academy. The ancient wonders (including the GLib) aren't worth to be rushed with a leader.

If you get another leader in the game (or even a few), use him/them to rush crucial small or great wonders (Forbidden Palace, Sistine Chapel, Hoover Dam, UN or similar).

[Allemand]

Building the Great Library is a good strategy if you're behind in tech, but otherwise not worth it.

[Hermann the Lombard]

Originally posted by Allemand
Building the Great Library is a good strategy if you're behind in tech, but otherwise not worth it.

Agreed. It expires too soon.

I was thinking of posting a similar question.

First of all, I would use the leader for *something* quickly, as you can't get a GL when you already have one (AFAIK). If there aren't any wonders or small wonders that you want, build the army and go for heroic epic, to help get more leaders later. As someone said in this thread "make sure your army wins." To that I would add: "review army construction rules *first* so you have the desired units to add (such as three vet legions, in the case of Rome).

I got two (so far) in my current game as Babylon. I used the first to build the Sistine, and the second to grab Sun Tzu. I didn't much want the Art of War (not that I mind having it), but I wouldn't have another Great Wonder for many, many turns, and I hope to generate another GL by then. I could have used the second one for the FP, and maybe I should have. I guess I'm hoping to use the FP as the center of a hypothetical New World empire, as per Vel.

I never considered using it for an army, and that might have been silly, as I was under heavy attack by the Persians at the time (heavy = 15 Immortals when I'm defending with swordsmen and spearmen). Three vet swordsmen to defend after my vet horse soften them up...

[Harovan]

To add only vet units to the army is nice, but not necessary, as they continue to gain experience inside the army. Legions are fine. Put 3 in the army and you have a hardly to beat battle colossus for the ancient period. Attack a softened up unit first (i.e. make sure the army wins). Once it won a battle, it has made it's main goal. Don't worry if you lose it later. Armies are short-living unit groups anyway, because the units can't (yet?) been upgraded, when they are in the army. With the Military Academy you can later build armies at heart's content (as much as your # of cities allows).

[Skanky Burns]

Actually, it depends on how you want to play the rest of the game. If you plan to be throwing your weight around a bit, then an army is a must. If you will be doing lots of fighting, then increased chances of more leaders is good.

Benefit of having an army:
The legions are well balanced, defend as well as a pikeman or Hoplite, and also attack as well as a standard swordsman. So an army built with them could be used both for offencive and defensive purposes. As a defensive army, its shelf-life is increased even further, as it takes quite a long time to remove its 12 or so hit-points.

OTOH, if you aren't gonna be fighting much, an increased chance of getting leaders will not get you any more leaders. Then again, most of the wonder's arent necessary.

Benefits of making a wonder:
You get the wonder, and more importantly prevent the enemy from getting a wonder. If you do decide to build a wonder, make sure its NOT in the city currently building a wonder - that would waste all 100 shields. Instead, start a wonder in some other city from scratch, and rush it. It will still be built in one turn. If you want the Great Library first, switch the other city to another wonder first, and then rush it from scratch.

[vmxa1]

I no longer use the army I make as a fighting unit. I just put in the best unit at the time (only one). I wait for a near dead unit to sent it against and win the battle, now you make the EPIC and put the army out graze. The biggest complaint is that you can not upgrade once in an army. What is worse than 3 riflemen that can not be mech or 3 horsmen or knights that can not be calv.

[Willem]

Re: Got my first leader, some advice please..

Originally posted by Feephi
I'm playing the Romans and have 14 cities. It's 130 AD, Regent, 14civs, huge map and I'm surrounded by strong Greeks, weak Aztecs, strong Russians, average Iroquois.. I'm first in Culture, in the middle of the pack in Power rankings. Should I: 1) Build an army of legionaries so that I can get the Heroic Epic later or should I: 2) build a Great Wonder -- which one? a) Great Library. 100 shields completed but other civs may be closer; b) Great Lighthouse. No one else has started yet; c) Great Wall. Other civs have been building this for a while. Forbidden Palace is not available yet.

Thanks for your help!

If you decide on a wonder, don't bother with Great Lighthouse or Great Wall. Both are rather useless IMO. You get the same benefit of the Lighthouse as soon as you discover Astronomy, and Great Wall only increases the defence strength of walls, which become obsolete as soon as the city gets over 6 population. So there's really only two options you have available, the Army or the Great Library. Myself, I would probably go with Great Library, but I tend to play rather peacefully any way.

And yes the benefits of the Great Library can be dubious, sometimes you won't get a single advance before it becomes obsolete. But it can also be very helpful if you're behind, in which case you might get a number of advances. It's kind of a 50/50 thing with that wonder.

[Travathian]

I'll disagree with everyone.

Save the GL. Expand like mad. Then use it to build a FP. But this depends on how much land is available, how quickly you can advance the tech tree, and your style of play.

I am a builder, I would rather have the shield/income bonus from my cities than most other wonders. In the long run, its the best wonder of all. But, if you dont imagine you'll be expanding too much this early, then its not worth it, especially if you plan to conquer those around you soon, and might get another GL.

(note: you can have more than one GL)

As a conquerer, I'd wait til Art of War or Sistine Chapel. Once again, if you're going on a conquering spree and might generate another leader, an army is a good choice to remove those pesky first defenders.

[Harovan]

Re: Re: Got my first leader, some advice please..

Originally posted by Willem
If you decide on a wonder, don't bother with Great Lighthouse or Great Wall...

Lighthouse ain't quite useless. With it, you can send your galleys and grab all these crappy islands around your continent, that don't produce much, but make perfect unsinkable aircraft carriers and navy bases later. Many of them are visible only with a seagoing galley. Btw, if you play on archipelago, Lighthouse is a must.

I know, that's not much an issue for a builder (to prevent a complaint, I am a builder myself), but even as builder it's better to own them rather than a potential enemy does.

But Lighthouse ain't worth to be rushed with a leader though.

[Brundlefly]

Thanks for all the replies!

I guess I'm leaning towards building a wonder. You see, the only land available to expand is a small bit of jungle, so I guess I'll have to expand by acquiring other civ's cities. Great Library gives 6 culture per turn and if I can build that in a city close to another civ, maybe I can culturally acquire a city or two. In addition, Great Library will allow me to focus on maximum cash production until it expires. The only reason why I considered the Lighthouse and the Great Wall was for the possibility of a Golden Age and the culture value they would add. The idea about holding it until FP becomes available was good.

I'm usually a peaceful player. Maybe I wouldn't be playing the Romans to their strengths if I didn't create an army/Heroic Epic and expand by acquiring cities militarily.

[Willem]

Re: Re: Re: Got my first leader, some advice please..

Originally posted by Sir Ralph


Lighthouse ain't quite useless. With it, you can send your galleys and grab all these crappy islands around your continent, that don't produce much, but make perfect unsinkable aircraft carriers and navy bases later. Many of them are visible only with a seagoing galley. Btw, if you play on archipelago, Lighthouse is a must.

I know, that's not much an issue for a builder (to prevent a complaint, I am a builder myself), but even as builder it's better to own them rather than a potential enemy does.

But Lighthouse ain't worth to be rushed with a leader though.

But once you get Astronomy, your Galley can end it's turn in a sea square anyway, so what's the point? Granted if you were on an isolated island, I can see the value, but since I play with continents anyway, it's not really worth the effort.

[Travathian]

One reason to build the GL if not for the tech bonus.

In a thousand years, the culture it produces doubles. That is HUGE in the long run.

[Willem]

Originally posted by Travathian
One reason to build the GL if not for the tech bonus.

In a thousand years, the culture it produces doubles. That is HUGE in the long run.

Yes, it's still one of my favourite Wonders, I usually try to go for it as quickly as possible. And I usually get it to. I'll put off Iron Working and work towards Literature as soon as I have my basic defensive units. I don't get nearly as many free techs as I did in the other civ games though.