Ultimate Power: a more pragmatic approach

[Arrian]

4000bc

Mountain Sage,

Here is the 4000bc save of my last game. Monarch, Standard, Continents, 8 civs, Carthage.

Enjoy.

-Arrian

[Mountain Sage]

There is a thread about 'the best 4 wonders'.
In respect to PUP, it depends on the map and the civ.
Obviously, on pangea you don't need the GLighthouse.

As my acronym states, P is for 'pragmatic'. I don't have a 'set' list of wonders I have to build.
If usually don't research Sun Tsu since by then I usually have enough barracks but I go for Leo for the upgrades.
I often don't go for Bach since by then my trading for 'old' techs gives me all the luxuries.

For me, a PUP game is one that at the end you are pleased with you civ and your game play and not necessary a collection of wondres or slain civs (without irony). Therefore, everybody will have a different perception of what a successful PUP game is, which is exactly why I called it Pragmatic.

Ok, I must confess, if I can add 'pacific' to it, it looks better for me.

[Mountain Sage]

Re: 4000bc

Originally posted by Arrian
Mountain Sage,

Here is the 4000bc save of my last game. Monarch, Standard, Continents, 8 civs, Carthage.

Enjoy.

-Arrian

GOTCHA!

I'll play it asa I finish my current game: archipelago, huge map, 16 civs, Monarch.
I feel a bit crowded. Therefore, the Romans (again!) are no more, the Babs and Koreans will also shortly follow the road to extinction.
Not a PUP game, the British are collecting the best wonders, and are of course far, far away. Ah well, C/C combination soon (cavalry on caravels). Let's see.
P.S. I even have a GL! FP or Smith? The choices were much simpler when I didn't go to war...

[Arrian]

FP!!!!! Capture Smith.

-Arrian

[Yahweh Sabaoth]

[insert rant here]

Damn RNG... no GLs in my current PUP/UP game, not a single one! Of course, only two wars, but the second one has been bloody enough... oh well, more wars are on the way.

[off-topic rant END]

[Arrian]

I'm playing what could be a PP game. Started it last night. I'm the Babs, and have my own continent (island). It's pretty darn big. I researched pottery & build a granary right off the bat, while getting a settler from a hut (plus several sets of barbs, 1 map, and 1 tech). My Rexing has been ridiculous.

Babylon had two wheats (on grass), so I was able to set up a crazy settler pump. I had two barracks towns pumping spearmen and could barely keep up for a while.

Continent settled, FP nearing completion, Great Library done (was building Colossus, lost it insanely early to the AI - coastal capitol), in Republic. My culture is through the roof, of course.

I have met 4 AIs. America and Russia share a continent to my north. I just snuck a town on their coast to try and steal furs (hoping to flip an American city. I lead the Babylonian Cultural Masters, after all). The Vikings and Japanese are to my west, I believe they each have an island of their own.

Now I *could* play this totally peacefully. But then again, I think I'd be out of my mind if I just sat there and waited for the Vikings to drop Beserks on my coastal cities. Plus, they built the Pyramids, they're close... so many reasons.

I'm about to start my Sistine prebuild. I MUST have it. With only 1 luxury (possibly 1 more w/o war or trade), I'm gonna need it. Plus, with the GL, it will trigger my GA.

-Arrian

edit: game's in the bag, though not PP. I just couldn't resist "liberating" the tiny island nation of Spain. Then the evil Russians attacked me, so I had to wipe them out. And now I'm thinking of alleviating the suffering of the poor, oppressed peoples of Scandanavia.

Even as the Babs, I end up warmongering. Once you begin down the Dark Path, forever will it dominate your destiny.

[Mountain Sage]

I managed to play till the middle of the Middle Ages. I'll post some screenshots by the end of this week or early next week.
The outcome will be, well, interesting.
In the meantime, the early game was just crazy. I got attacked by the Germans, then by the Persians, then by the Japanese and finally by the Russian. And all this several times still in BC!
Is it always like this on standard maps? I understand the crowding, but still...
Or was it Arrian's influence, since it's his game?
Anyway: I'll post detailed screenshots & comments asap.

[Arrian]

In the meantime, the early game was just crazy. I got attacked by the Germans, then by the Persians, then by the Japanese and finally by the Russian. And all this several times still in BC!
Is it always like this on standard maps? I understand the crowding, but still...
Or was it Arrian's influence, since it's his game?

Well, those are some aggressive civs. There was actually a fair amount of land to grow peacefully, so it wasn't overcrowding.

Still, when I saw my immediate neighbors were Persia (with iron) and Germany, I knew I was going to war (having started a game as Carthage, aggressive warmongering was not originally my intent).

-Arrian

p.s. The Russians actually managed to capture a core city of mine, something that hadn't happened to me in a good long time. They landed a regular horseman next to my city, which had a regular swordsman in it (size 12). Despite attacking across a river against the fortified sword in a city (5 defense), it won. I took the city back the very next turn, but had to rebuild the temple, cathedral, library and university.

When I got around to dealing with Russia, I removed them from the planet. I brought my own settler with me. I razed every single one of their cities.

-Arrian

[Konquest02]

I played a little bit of your Carthage game tonight and I think this is a very good candidate for a peaceful UP game. There is good land to expand to and Carthage is great for the Ind/Com combo.
It has Num. Merc. too, so I don't get bullied around in the BC as it sometimes happen.
I have a 1 tech lead over Germany and Persia and a couple over Japan. I am beelining for Republic and have over 800 gold in my safe, all this while in despotism.
I have lost the Colossus though (by 10 turns), but the GLib is almost secured (traded Literature 2 turns too early...)

More updates on this later!

--Kon--

[Mountain Sage]

Originally posted by Konquest02
I played a little bit of your Carthage game tonight and I think this is a very good candidate for a peaceful UP game.
--Kon--

In YOUR game maybe...

[Arrian]

Kon,

You bring up a point I hadn't considered before I played this game: the Numidian Merc (which I don't particularly like) does have the advantage of making you look military strong to the AI. The AI is less likely to try to bully a civ it doesn't see as weak.

I don't know what happened to MS, but the AI didn't mess with me at all (until I dropped 10 swordsmen on Persia).

-Arrian

[Konquest02]

I haven't had any demands from the AI since the beginning of my game, and I'm near the end of my REX phase... I think I will attack Germany first... We'll see.

--Kon--

[Arrian]

Germany first, huh? Watch your back, Kon. Xerxes and Bizzy are both nasty SOBs, but Xerxes has a Immortals.

-Arrian

[Konquest02]

Exactly, I'll be friend with Xerxes so that he does not send his immortals visit Carthage and Utica...

[Konquest02]

What kind of city spacing do you use to achieve (P)UP?

I usually use a 3-tile pattern (C-T-T-C) but I went a little looser this time to turn some of my cities in big thriving metropolis. I went a lot closer in the desert though, almost ICS. I have mostly 3 or 4-tile spacing pretty much everywhere in my empire...

--Kon--