Roleplay Team

[Togas]

The coup rule is a good one. Simple and easy to do. May be modified if we get a lot more people on this team, but right now it seems fine.

I'm not in favor of adding the mini-game to this game. I have a healthy respect for the mini-game and those who play it ... it's extremely involved. Frankly, it's too involved for me. I plan to remain involved in the Dem game, adding this game will make me twice as busy. I don't really want the added complexity of the mini-game on top of this new game.

Let's keep the good ideas coming, but let's also try not to make this too complicated. A part of my wish to roleplay the governments is my desire to make this game less complicated and structured, to allow us to just join in, get into our roles a bit and have a good time.

Also, please post your civ preferences. We still need to pick a civ.

--Togas

[GodKing]

I have no real preference, as I will make due with whatever we have. Random is OK by me.

Some things about specific civ trates:

Expansionistic - I don't like unless we are on a pangia, to grab all those goodie huts. Otherwise, I find it kinda useless.

Industrious and Capitolistic - always good plusses to have. Good to make the money and build the improvements on any type of map, with almost any style of playing.

Scientific or Religious - any one is necessary for culture, both if going for a cultural victory. I always like to have one of these trates, but which one depends on how we wish to play.

Militeristic - as I suspect we will be killing each other off while still in rex phase, I can see this comming in very usefull for those elete units and those GL's to rush wonders. In how I play solo, this isn't terribly important as I try to stay out of wars until the middle ages.


I just hope that we get a good UU. Germans, russians, ottamins are good ones IMO. Bad ones are koreans (who wants a uu that can be captured?), americans and english.

[Ninot]

I would much prefer Rome to any other civ


and Rome has a very well documented history of civil wars, of which we can take examples

[Nuclear Winter]

Hello!
I strongly support France or Germany.
Maybe Vikings, or Spanish. All those nations had violent wars and revolutions for power! Might be interesting for roleplay.
Though I hate their UU, the Brit might also be cool.
BTW, no one said a word about me joining this, so I´ll assume I´m in (?)...
Newbies r hard to deal with, don´t you all agree?

[Ninot]

Sudden idea for roleplaying (inspired by my thinking about Roman wars... )!!!

Ok.., i suppose this is leaving the boundaries of how C3DG has made us think so far

but what if, in both the Roleplaying sense and the actuall implementation, each feudal lord, or senator, or whatever....


is also a General and Commander of Troups?

This would both allow the division of the Army that was sought for in the early days of the C3DG, and another level of RP

ala the days when Caesar crossed the Rubicon, if everyone of us had control of a certain ammount of units (divided evenly) and a region to defend with them, we could have another RP aspect for civil wars, and...well it divies up responsibilities moreso... and i dunno, tuns of RP?

[GodKing]

Yep. Lots of RP. But we also have a time limit on when we have to turn around this game and email it to the other teams... I would assume you are talking about when we are a republic or monarchy?

[Togas]

I'm trying to keep track of the members of this team in the very first post. Please check to see if I've included your name and if it's in the right place.

Also, I wanted us to use one of the new civs for this team, something new and different. We need a combination of good traits for a multiplayer game, something with a decent UU that will help us at the right time, and a civ with a history that would be fun to RP.

I'm very fond of maneuverable UUs, Industrious civs, and middle-aged GAs, and I'd like something a little more exotic and unusual with regards to civ choices.

If no one is excited about the new civs, we'll default to the old.

--Togas

[mrmitchell]

Term Idea:
Each Despot has 5 turns/term. Coup rules sound good, but otherwise at the end of 5 turns he either reappoints self or appoints new leader.

Civ Suggestions:
Didn't you say you wanted to play a new team? I don't have PtW yet. I dont know any of the new civs but The earliest I can have it is the 6th I figure (our 13000 pop town only the Wal Mart sells comp games sad I know but they sez they slow gettin new games but they have it probably by thursday and I go to other place 6th anyway they probably have it with wal mart supercenter.)

from what ive read i like spain and ottoman.

Excuse the grammar.

(Shouldn't we vote on civ to pick? Slaps self on forehead *Duh*)

[mrmitchell]

Originally posted by Togas
...
and a civ with a history that would be fun to RP.
...
--Togas

Pick Spain, drive out Arab, Persia, Ottoman, from land, "discover" and conquer two new continents, use cruelty to rule land, eventually it rebels to form several differnet nations. Be allied with France most this time and then have despotism for long time in modern era but switch.

My history of spam is probably about as acurate as saying cheese evolved from goat herders to become the dinosars, but at least it will be easy to rp the 'conquer new world' part. We can wipe out hte Aztec and their Mingapulco city in that part.

[Ninot]

Honestly... the only civ i truly like of the new ones is Spain (kinda fits your favored conditions, doesnt it?)

Celts look allright i suppose

but i still prefer the glory of Rome

I prefer the original civs over the new ones in most cases.

[Arnelos]

I like the Ottomons (Scientific and Indutrious is the best combo, IMO - and that Sipahi could be pretty powerful...), but it may be taken by another team (I think Trip's team wanted them as well).

The Carthaginians have a great combo with Industrious and Commercial, but their UU is so expensive as the default defensive unit that it can actually handicap this player. The best way I've found around this handicap is to build plenty of mines around Carthage early-on to use Carthage as a Numidian Warrior factory (using your industrious trait to the maximum... faster workers build those mines faster and those mines do more for you!). Once the Carthaginians get rolling, those industrious workers combined with the 25% reduction in corruption and waste is fantastic.... the EXPENSE of the numidian warriors can be a really big handicap, though...

The Greeks, Romans, and Persians are the best old civs, I believe - both for traits and for UUs. The Greeks are my personal favorite because of the Hoplite, but the Persians are great as well because of Industrious+Scientific (which I think is the best combo).

So, if I HAD to order them (with preference toward new civs):

1. Ottomons (Industrious+Scientific)
2. Carthaginians (Industrious+Commercial)
3. Greeks (Scientific+Commercial)
4. Persians (Industrious+Scientific)
5. Romans (Commercial+Militaristic)

We should only go with Romans if we really intend to do a lot of fighting early (which we very well might, since it looks like the 3 other human civs are going to be very warlike )

[Arnelos]

btw... I'm hereby joining the role-play team

[Arnelos]

Ok, re-capping everyone's civ choices so far:

CIV PICKS BY TEAM MEMBERS:

Togas = Carthage, Celts, Spain (in that order)
GodKing = Ottomons, Germans, Russians
jdjdjd = Ottomons
adaMada = ?
F-Pro = ?
Nuclear Winter = France, Germany, Scandinavians, Spain, England (in that order)
Ninot = Rome
Arnelos = Ottomons, Carthage, Greece, Persia, Rome (in that order)

CIV PICKS BY PEOPLE THAT WILL PERHAPS JOIN:

Thud = ?
History Guy = ?
mrmitchell = ?
MrWhereItsAt = ?
DAVOUT = ?

I'd argue that the clear favorites so far seem to be:

1. Ottomons
2. Carthage

Here's my arguments on the advantages/disadvantages of each:

OTTOMONS:

Advantages: They're industrious+scientific, which I believe is the best combo in the game. Their UU is fanstastic (8 attack value cavalry) and well-timed (end of the middle age).
Disadvantages: Their UU, while well-timed when considering a game that runs from ancient age to modern age, may not necessarily be well-timed for a hotly competitive multi-player game where it will be a struggle enough to survive the ancient age (especially if playing on deity level...). The industrious+scientific combo will help, but an ancient UU could come in handy.

CARTHAGE:

Advantages: The Industrious+Commercial combo is very powerful, perhaps the best in the game (not in my opinion, but that of others). The industrious trait will help greatly in overcoming what would otherwise be a handicap with the high price of the UU (which doubles as the default defensive unit... the price thus being a handicap on develpment). The industrious trait can be used to have fast workers build mines around the Carthage (the capital) for building those Numidian warriors faster (and a barracks in Carthage will mean we're pumping out veteran numidian warriors... which is VERY nice - I've now tried it against the AI ). That defensive value of 3 will help immeasurably during the ancient era, especially on deity level. The commercial trait will also help immeasurably if we make it so far as to be a large empire (that 25% reduction in corruption can single-handedly be more powerful than all of the other civ traits put together).
Disadvantages: The highly-priced UU can be a handicap because it doubles as the default defensive unit, replacing the spearmen. While other civs will be spending the requisite ~30 turns pumping out spearman+settler combos, it will take us ~40-50 turns to pump out numidian warrior+settler combs. Now we can use our faster workers to build more mines and reduce that difference a bit, but it's still going to matter (even though the defensive value of 3 could make the extra expense worth it). Also, the commercial trait is not especially useful (other than for the bonus trade on the city tile) until our empire gets especially large... so if we aren't very large, then the commercial trait isn't terribly valuable (though the slight boost in income can give us a bigger military or give us more money to buy tech off of the AI civs at deity level). There's also something to be said for the Carthaginians' lack of a culture-focused civ trait (scientific or religious), as our expensive outposts (numidian warrior+settler) will be more vulnerable to culture flipping (though industrious to raise production and commercial to reduce corruption WILL HELP to make outposts grow faster toward that first temple/library).

CONCLUSION:

The Ottomons are basicallly a straight-up great civ for the long-term vision of our civilization's development from the ancient age through the modern age. They have great civ traits that will prove useful in every age and they have a fantastic UU timed for the end of the middle age. The lack of a UU in the ancient age could be problematic on a tightly packed board with 3 other human civs and 4 AI civs at deity level, however... Also, at deity level, the scientific trait would be far less useful (though each free tech is ~500 gold we don't have a to pay someone ).

Carthage isn't necessarily a break-away favorite for the ancient age as much as a civ that will force us into a certain Carthage-influenced early-game strategy where we have to take into account the subsitution of the numdian warrior for the spearman... and have to use our industrious workers from very early on to raise productivity. This can be done and even could be devastatingly effective, but Carthage is not (from the impression I'm getting from playing as them in single player) an easy civ to play... it takes something of a very specific strategy to do right... something we may not be as open to in the free-wheeling role-playing civilization (though it might be PERFECT for role-playing our despotism form of government... as the enlightened dictator would have the authority to really control the strategy for Carthage and do it right!). Once were out of the danger zone of being wiped out early on, things should get a lot better for us... Carthage will be particularly strong in the middle age with that Industrious+Commercial combo (more production, more money ).

My personal bias is toward Carthage at this point because I expect the ancient age to be brutal and for the commercial trait's increase to income to be more significant than the scientific trait's increase to science (which, at deity level, we're not likely to even be competitive in WITH the scientific trait)...

[DAVOUT]

I have no prefered civ provided they are Industrious and Commercial.

[mrmitchell]

Hey Arnelos, can you do a summary of Spain? What does the Conquistador replace, anyway? How brutal do you think the ancient age will be? I've got a scale for brutalness,

1. "Daddy can I play that computer game?"
2. "Oh crap Persia and their Immortals just declared war on me and I only have Spear and Archer"
3. "Oh CRAP Persia just declared war on me and I only have warriors"
4. "OH #### PERSIA JUST DECLARED WAR ON ME WITH MODERN ARMOR AND I ONLY HAVE ONE WARRIOR" (Ha ha)
5. "Yes, Xerxes, I surrender, oh Great King."

(I only had Persia as an example because I play 'em a lot, know 'em inside out.)