The Glory of Manifestos

[Panzer32]

Just a point to make about some not deeming those cities to be of 'strategic value' to GoW: please count the number of turns it would take to reach RP cities without going through those cities' territory. The number is quite large, and we do not like to betray allies by making them fight alone.

[Harovan]

Originally posted by Panzer32
..., and we do not like to betray allies ...

[Darekill]

I think I make a statement here too.

As all of you know there was and is an alliance between ND and the GOW. When we were presented by a city that suddendly was flying GS colors but not spanish anymore. We took action and took it taking the risk of war with two Nations. We expectet to do GoW the same and take bilbao.

We had not known of the NAP between the GS and GoW so we saw no problem in that and when we realised that GoW did not take Bilbao instantly we were quite a bit upset. We were not willing to fight this war without allys on our side and with the risk that the ally might choose to switch sides. So we did put presure at GoW to finaly act.

This reaction was not so unlikely as that no one would have reconed with it. Of cours GS and RP did know that this pressure was due to happen.

You can call this an act of cleverness. It is indeed but that did leave GoW with little else to do but break at least one Pact. Either one with a close ally who tried to hold on to pacts not only by it's wording but by its meaning or to do it with an fickle friend that obviously played nasty tricks on them.

Legaly seen GoW did break it's NAP with GS. I see this. but I see the reason behind it and I see how hard they were pushed to do it also. So it can not be mentioned too often that in my Opinion the Glory of War did act truely honest to our nation. They never once tried to play a cheap trick on us unlike other Nations we meet in this game.

[DeepO]

Darekill, I can imagine that for your team GoW was honorable, but just wait what will happen next... of all the treaties we ever had with GoW, none of them were followed through... they broke every single treaty we ever had, not only of intent, but also to the letter. I'm not mentioning this as rectification of us doing the same with them, as we didn't break anything (BTW, AFAIK we did not say to RP that we had a NAP with GoW), it's just a warning amongst friends. Watch your back...

DeepO

[Harovan]

Not to mention, that for GoW the NAP had the sole purpose to backstab ND in the end. Or why else would one want a 30 turns NAP for, when attacking a pretty helpless civ with 2 different fastmover UU's? To cover the own back in this case 10 or at most 15 turns would suffice. But if one intents afterwards to attack an ally, who's army is gone, from 2 sides at the same time without having to fear an intervention, it suddenly begins to make sense.

[UnOrthOdOx]

30 turns was to make sure we did not have to fight you as well during our GA, actually.

The whole purpose of the NAP as I wrote it up was to prevent exactly what has happened, and keep us from fighting RP and GS. Oh well, things change.

Did we break the NAP? Technically, yes, it was us who broke it. Happy?

I do find it curious that Lego saw their NAP would prevent them from receiving cities from RP where as GS did not.

Does any of it matter? No.

Want to know GoW?

We said from the beginning that we were mercenaries. As far as I can see, we have played as we said from the beginning.

The NAP ceased to be profitable, simple as that. It has also had the effect of making relations with ND MORE profitable. At least for now. I am sure there might be some situation somewhere somehow that would make relations with ND cease to be profitable as well. We will decide that as mercenaries when the time comes. But, for the foreseeable future, it is in our best interest to protect our mutual homeland from invaders, together.

[Shiber]

I don't get it.
UnOrthOdOx said to GS himself that the NAP is really meant to guard GoW from a backstab from ND.
So GoW attacking RP while they had an MPP which RP wanted to sign in case ND attacked them is OK, but GS "attacking" (according to GoW's statements) GoW while they have an agreement to guard against treason from ND is not OK?

[UnOrthOdOx]

Originally posted by Shiber
I don't get it.
UnOrthOdOx said to GS himself that the NAP is really meant to guard GoW from a backstab from ND.
So GoW attacking RP while they had an MPP which RP wanted to sign in case ND attacked them is OK, but GS "attacking" (according to GoW's statements) GoW while they have an agreement to guard against treason from ND is not OK?

No,

I said I wanted you on the island at the end of the war to protect against a ND backstab, for what better time for ND to backstab us than after RP was dealt with and the GoW army was in the south? This deal never came to pass for RP made a better offer, apparantly.

The NAP was to protect against GS joining the war against us. A moot point now (to borrow GF's favorite new word 'moot')

If you're going to quote me, do it correctly please.

[Darekill]

I'm not stupid. I can imagin that plans for a backstab attack from GoW against ND exited and may still exist. The point is, as long as it is for GoW better to fight with us then against us we feel fine. We hope to keep it that way. How we do this is our Problem.

[UnOrthOdOx]

Originally posted by Darekill
I'm not stupid. I can imagin that plans for a backstab attack from GoW against ND exited and may still exist. The point is, as long as it is for GoW better to fight with us then against us we feel fine. We hope to keep it that way. How we do this is our Problem.

That about sums up how I feel about ND as well. About nearly every team, really.

[Panzer32]

Originally posted by Sir Ralph

btw, I said we do not like to.

[Shiber]

Darekill, you have my respect for your honesty.

[Shiber]

Originally posted by UnOrthOdOx
I do find it curious that Lego saw their NAP would prevent them from receiving cities from RP where as GS did not.

Don't fool yourself, Lego is incapable of actively and efficiently warring with GoW on Bob until Astronomy.
I also find it curious... that Lego let themselves be bullied into a NAP in the first place.

[Panzer32]

good job Shiber

lets badmouth legos because we know they can't attack us now.

[Shiber]

No, I very much appreciate and respect the way that both Lego and ND have played this game thus far, and I wouldn't say a bad word about either teams.
But since you and some of your teammates think that this is all a big circus and you ought to put up a show to convince Lego that they should attack us (or whatever Master Zen's latest "evil plan" dictates), I'm not surprised that you try to interpret my words in a way that would be offensive towards Lego.