Vox Public Announcement - Peace in Our Times?

[Aeson]

Please note that several of our members have not even had a chance to read this thread. There can be no official GS statement until we (as a team) know what we are making a statement about.

People of the world do sleep, work, ect.

[vondrack]

Originally posted by Aeson
Please note that several of our members have not even had a chance to read this thread. There can be no official GS statement until we (as a team) know what we are making a statement about.

People of the world do sleep, work, ect.

Understood. I believe most comments in this thread can be summed up as "let's see what GS has to say about it first".

And that official statement of GS is anxiously awaited.

[Hot_Enamel]

Originally posted by Aeson
Please note that several of our members have not even had a chance to read this thread. There can be no official GS statement until we (as a team) know what we are making a statement about.

People of the world do sleep, work, ect.

Quite true...and it is very fair to allow GS time to come up with a response.

I however, can never join a chat during sensible hours here in Oz...So I would prefer to do it by thread.

[OPD]

Originally posted by UnOrthOdOx
[personal opinion]
I am just now reading any of this. To critisize a team for not having an OFFICIAL response to an announcement they did not know was comming within a few hours is a bit of folly, I feel. I doubt all of GS has even had a chance to see this yet. This is especially true of GS, who is much more prone to concensus in case the rest of you haven't figured that out yet. They don't have an official who can just respond and that be official like some of the other teams. This has good and bad points to it.

cheers UnO

Reguarding the editting of whatever comments were made above, well, anyone who was a part of the SPDG knows I do not care for that much when it can be considered remotely official. (understatement of the century)[/personal opinion]

This game may reach the stage of international law concerning such things.

[UnOrthOdOx]

Originally posted by OPD
This game may reach the stage of international law concerning such things.

I was never able to get that law passed within the SPDG, I doubt it will fly here either. It's just a personal grievance brought on by a bad incident with an official editting away certain things once upon a time...nearly made me leave the SPDG or quit the paper that I had to rewrite due to that...

[Shiber]

Vondrack: true, but chats can be controlled using the 'moderated' flag. Trip can be made the channel operator and moderate/demoderate the room at the appropriate times.
The main advantage of a chat would be that teams will be able to receive answers to their questions on-line and then respond to those answers with more questions.
True, not everyone can participate, but if anyone has any specific questions that he'd like to ask, he can notify his team's representatives. The log can then be posted on the public forum, and if people demand, we can hold a second "press conference".

[Arrian]

Wow, I just saw this. I haven't even read it in detail yet...

Give us a little time here, folks... last thing I knew, we were working on a deal with Vox. Now it appears to have blown up, and I don't even know why.

-Arrian

[ruby_maser]

Shiber, I've always liked that GS logo in your avatar It shows team spirit but not lacking in a sense of humor.

I was thinking I should start considering putting "AI" on my forehead in my avatar, but maybe I could give myself a little more credit

[ManicStarSeed]

As Minister of Diplomatic Affairs, Let me say a statement is forthcoming soon. I only found out about this 7 hours ago there was a spell of sleep between then and now. I still need to check in with my team and see what they think of the response I prepared....

Mss

[nbarclay]

This is not an official GS response, but seeing how people seem to be responding to the situation, I consider it important to clear the air a bit.

(1) We had made it clear to Vox that the war would continue unless and until a peace settlement was reached. Vox therefore had no basis from which to expect not to be attacked.

(2) The immortals Vox moved were among the first to invade our lands, and had already been convicted of Invasion in Violation of Treaty, complicity in the murder of Grog, and Threatening the Public Safety. They were under sentence of death, and all but two had been reduced to a single hit point by catapults prior to the turn in question. Their execution was carried out precisely on schedule, very much as it would have been had they not moved.

(3) Further, moving those immortals placed them adjacent to not one, not two, but three undefended Gathering Storm workers. If that was a "sign of good faith," it was a grossly incompetent one.

(4) If Vox were trustworthy, we might regard Beta's peace offer as reasonable in spite of the fact that the only territory Vox is offering to concede is territory already behind our front lines, territory that Vox has no real hope of holding in any case. But after the blatant lies and elaborate deception Vox used to set up their attack on us, we find it difficult to see how a peace treaty from Vox could be worth the paper it's printed on. Leaving Vox on our continent would mean spending enormous sums of gold and shields on units to guard the border for the rest of the game. We see no reason why we should suffer from such a penalty just because others have decided to put expediency ahead of honor. (The irony is that even though a lack of trust is the biggest obstacle to peace, Beta seems intent on further demonstrating Vox's untrustworthiness in this thread.)

(5) As I pointed out to Jon when he conveyed Vox's willingness to forego iron, that is no real guarantee of security at all. During the war, Vox actually went so far as to deliberately disconnect their iron supply from most of their cities so they could continue building warriors and spears and upgrading them to immortals and pikes. All it takes is iron for one turn for warriors and spears to become immortals and pikes.

(6) We have little sympathy for Vox's arguments that the war has cost them more than it cost us. Both their losses and ours are their responsibility for starting the war, and we do not see how they have a right to sympathy for a situation they brought on themselves. And as I noted above, if we allow them to remain on our continent, their untrustworthiness would continue to impose a considerable cost on us long after the war is over.

(7) Finally, I should note that Lux Invicta was hounded off their home continent over alleged provocations that were nowhere near as serious as what Vox did to us. Certainly, neither Neu Demogyptica nor Glory of War should find it surprising that we want Vox gone from our continent.

If Vox wants a temporary cease-fire in order to evacuate from the continent in a more orderly fashion, and if they can find somewhere to evacuate to, that can probably still be arranged in spite of Beta's latest series of half-truths. But we do not view sharing a continent with a nation that seems committed to dishonesty as a way of life as a viable option.

[UnOrthOdOx]

MSS:

LOVE the avatar

[vondrack]

Nathan, do I read your post correctly, please?

Do you say:

"There will be no peace until there is one single last Voxian unit/city on Estonia."

Is that right?

[GhengisFarbâ„¢]

Excellent prologue, nbarclay.

Is there a response from Betahound?

[Arrian]

By the way, we almost have an official GS team response ready, but I guess Nathan wanted to get that stuff off his chest.

As for peace terms, Vondrack, at this point, yes. I was among the minority on GS that would have accepted less than a Voxexodus (odd, the co-general of the armies being a relative "peacenik"). Now, after this stunt, I'm not sure I want peace with them ever.

-Arrian

[nbarclay]

Vondrack, would surviving with only a single city on our continent be worth the bother for Vox even if we would consider allowing them to do so? The way I've been looking at it, unless we would be willing to leave Vox enough on our continent to be worth their while, they are a lot better off evacuating and finding somewhere else to set up shop. From what we've heard, you have plenty of room on Lego if you're interested in keeping Vox alive.