Vox Public Announcement - Peace in Our Times?

[ManicStarSeed]

GS-Offical Diplomatic Stance

Nations of the world:
As the Minister of Diplomatic Affairs, I am deeply saddened that this is the route that Vox has chosen to take regarding our once private peace negotiation. GS will not be held hostage to Vox's apparent attempt to bully us (in the public forum) into a policy contrary to what we have already adopted. GS has been forthcoming in it's decision that we are no longer willing to share our continent with Vox.

Please allow me to clarify the situation.
First when Vox approached us for Peace, we stated very clearly that
1) We seek an unconditional surrender from Vox, that means peace on our terms. AND
2) Hostilties will continue until we reach a final agreement.
Beta said that Vox understood the message. So any Vox casualties should be no surprise.
When we asked whether Vox would leave the continent for peace, we received the peace proposal outlined in Betas first post.
Let it be known that Gathering Storm REJECTS the proposal, (no matter how “reasonable” it seems) in favor of our own conditions for peace - a Vox exodus from our continent.
A day or two ago, Jon Miller PMed us (before this slur campaign) and stated there were some errors made and that Vox has been planning an exodus. Gathering storm considered this a major break through. We sent a brief message to Vox outlining a portion of what we expect, then suddenly this thread appears and negotiations have now stalled.

Before ANY of you judge Gathering Storm in the way we conducted ourselves or what we ask in terms of peace we ask you…
Do the other nations want Vox to survive? Let us know…We really want to know.
Are YOU willing to have Vox as a neighbor and share a border with them?
Speak up, please…
Currently, Vox is the only nation to actually eliminate a team so far . Assuming we all want Vox to survive… Will you be willing to share your land mass with Vox?
We are not. BUT….here is what we were willing to do to insure the survival of Vox…
Gathering Storm was willing to give up to 12 turns of cease fire where we observe Vox disbanding their remaining military to pay for galleys and settlers to load up and leave. Vox may maintain a small military (during the exodus but not in cities) to protect their new settlements. We were willing to provide some techs and resources while they re-established free of charge (assuming it complies with other deals). Granted Vox never learned of these details because they chose to smear us in public before we got to negotiated a final deal.

Let me address some other grievous issues raised
Yes, we made an amphibious landing in Vox’s Core because WE ARE AT WAR folks. No treaty was “signed.” “Hostilities will continue until peace is finalized”
Beta stated that Vox moved (5) not-so immortals off a mountain in good faith. These troops were down to 1 or 2 hp each. Gathering Storm says that they should have disbanded them if it was done in good faith, not move them to threaten our workers. Also we were going to ask that these forces be disbanded as part of any agreement, so now we have one less demand.

For Vox trying to claim foul is plain desperation. Just because they started this war, what gives them the right to expect that they can dictate the terms in which it ends. We expected a proud honorable foe, not this. This latest development has hardened our hearts and strengthened our resolve. I am uncertain that Gathering Storm can accept peace on any terms now. [edit]Yet we are still discussing the possibility of peace [/edit]I will say that the path to peace is so narrow that we are uncertain that Vox’s “mouth” could even fit through. We say this to Vox, (though it assumes more honor than you have show)…May your blades chip and shatter.

ManicStarSeed,
Minister of Diplomatic Affairs
Gathering Storm.

[ManicStarSeed]

Originally posted by Togas
Not that my opinion or the opinion of Spain matters much.

It does

We are not a party to this war. We represent just one of the nations on this planet. We have an interest in peace as it allows us to sell our wares to all nations,

This war is not stopping it from what I know...

and we also have an interest in seeing that some balance of power remains.

I would simply like to say that I, and the nation of Spain, are saddened by reports that GS will settle only for all of Vox's land. And if this is true, we then we live in dark times where the only real peace comes only after the destruction of one's former enemies.

Did we set the precedent (sp?) or did vox.... Remember Luxes death blow?

Gathering Storm is now the greatest nation in the world, surpassing all others with more citizens, power, wonders, and military might. None of us come close.

For now, Notice, you did not mention territory size...how convenient. We all know that in the long run, that is a primary factor.

Vox is now the weakest nation in the world without a single resource to their name and only a single incense. In the eyes of the world, Gathering Storm has acheived a stunning victory and arisen from this conflict as a power to be feared.

We worked very hard to do so

Isn't that enough? Can't that be enough? There comes a point where you stop being the victim and start being a bully. Please don't cross that line.

When to say when is a tricky subject, It is a two way street. Who is the bully in this thread? We are being demonized in this thread, No?
Crossing the line, as we see it would be giving them NO out.

Doing to Vox what they did to you don't make it any more right.

We will not set up a clever, complex deception to get the better of our neighboe, so no worries here. They admit the ruse and deception. We have been upfront.

I know that Gathering Storm prides itself on being trustworthy and honorable. I also know that they have a deep loathing for the Voxians. I ask only that Gathering Storm try to embrace their ideals and remain "above" the level of the Voxians. Take the moral high ground.

We are, sort of. We have been forthright and honest. We are realizing that it means nothing in the game if you are perceived as strong however. Military success and moral high ground are not mutually exclusive.

Accept this offer and obtain some Good Will with the rest of the world. Denying this offer and conquering Vox will only further tarnish the already damaged reputation of your team.

No we do not accept this offer. You are being played Togas, poor weak Vox. So they picked on the wrong guy and are facing the grim consequences. They weren’t weak when this started. We were, but where was the public outcry then?

If you want to see mercy, Welcome them to Bob, Give them some land to resettle. We might give them time… That is our mercy, Generosity is fine as long as someone else is giving...

How come Vox eliminates Lux by deception and we do not have the good will of the world because we are honest about it. Double standards are real, I guess…

Please do not consider this a flame. It is meant to be a plea for mercy and for restraint.

--Togas

No worries, just honest debate.

ManicStarSeed,
Minister of Diplomatic Affairs
Gathering Storm.

[edit] darn quotes

[UnOrthOdOx]

Sorry, this has nothing to do with this thread really, other than a pathetic attempt to inject some humor.

We will not set up a clever, complex deception to get the better of our neighbor, so no worries here.

Does anyone else find this funny comming from a team whom has a member who is responsible for the coining of the very term 'Arrian's Deception'?

I'll bet there are a few on GS who wish that were even a possibility right about now?

this is all intended in humor, no offense meant to anyone.

[ManicStarSeed]

Originally posted by UnOrthOdOx
Sorry, this has nothing to do with this thread really, other than a pathetic attempt to inject some humor.



Does anyone else find this funny comming from a team whom has a member who is responsible for the coining of the very term 'Arrian's Deception'?

continuing the thread jack.... sure I can see the humor , but what does it relate to.... wht is the Arrians deception? PM me if yo wan to let it die here...
Mss

[Arrian]

[Arrian]

MSS - real quick threadjack:

Someone once posted that if you wipe out all your AI neighbors before meeting other civs (like ones that started on a different continent) those newly-met civs won't have any idea of any diplomatic unpleasantness you pulled. So you could be a right bastard, breaking treaties left and right, so long as you wiped out everyone who knew about it.

I really liked the idea, and started trying to do it - with some success. I posted about it, and so the term was coined. Even though the original idea wasn't mine.

Incidentally, I don't really use the Deception much. I certainly wipe out my AI neighbors, but I don't do the treaty-breaking part. Partly because it can be hard to pull off the Deception, and I don't want my rep screwed. Partly just 'cause.

But it's a purely SP thing.

-Arrian

(I wish I did know who to credit for coming up with the deception, btw).

[WhiteBandit]

Originally posted by Arrian
What is it will all these other teams, not involved in the war, wanting peace? And while I don't want to sound rude, how is it any of your business? The Gathering Storm was attacked. We have responded. Now that we're winning, the rest of the world seems to want to prevent our victory and acquisition of Voxian lands (which is what the Bobians got out of the destruction of Lux). Please don't tell me you're doing it out of some heartfelt desire to keep Vox in the game because their elimination would be cruel. Vox is worth something to you: possible tech deal(s) for nationalism, and of course, if they have land left on Estonia, it's land GS doesn't have.

Heh! I'm going to go a totally different way with this (with the usual disclaimer that I am a mere peon and do not represent the views of my team).

After analyzing threads all day and catching up on the history of the demogame, I have to say I totally agree with Arrian. As far as I'm concerned, GS has every right to persue this war to whatever conclusion they chose.

Mistakes/Risks were taken on either side, and someone will undoubtably be paying for them. That is just the way things work. Heh.

Granted, peace would be nice, but I myself see GS's view. Peace will come... but it will come from rather unpleasant results.

[Jon Shafer]

Burn and pillage!

It doesn't matter who.

[GhengisFarb™]

Originally posted by Arrian
[disclaimer] Please don't tell me you're doing it out of some heartfelt desire to keep Vox in the game because their elimination would be cruel. Vox is worth something to you: possible tech deal(s) for nationalism, and of course, if they have land left on Estonia, it's land GS doesn't have.

-Arrian

I think this is the most accurate reasoning behind the other civs supporting a peace. As stated by your own team members many of the other teams view GS as the sole world power now. I readily admit that the concept of GS becoming even more powerful puts me in the mental position of thinking of ways to hold that power in check.

Anytime one team gains a distinct advantage or outpaces the other in level of power it is a common response from the other teams to look for ways to check or hinder that power.

Not necessarily justified, but its the way people react.

[ManicStarSeed]

/me bows to WhiteBandit...

Arrian/ UnO... Ahh...I know that trick.... It is difficult to implement beyond one or two civs though...

Now returning to or regularly scheduled program of
point-counterpoint...
Mss

[Master Zen]

Originally posted by Trip
Burn and pillage!

It doesn't matter who.

Coming from the guy who got burnt and pillaged!

[ManicStarSeed]

Originally posted by Trip
Burn and pillage!

It doesn't matter who.

We also see why Lux did not make it... Remember people, this is important...
Pillage first, Then burn....

Mss

[Jon Shafer]

[nbarclay]

The fun thing about pulling dirty tricks on AIs in SP is that whether we treat them honorably or dishonorably, it's all 1's and 0's to the computer. No one is hurt, and no one with a vested interest is offended. MP is an entirely different matter in that regard.

[alva]

Gathering Storm is now the greatest nation in the world, surpassing all others with more citizens, power, wonders, and military might.

Note Togas, that you and many others still have a GA to look forward too.
These things can be very powerfull.

I also know that they have a deep loathing for the Voxians.

We do not, but yes, we are and still are at war.

Accept this offer and obtain some Good Will with the rest of the world

Even through the eyes of a neutral person, the offer is nowhere enough. Sorry.

Please do not consider this a flame.

Not taken as such

EDIT: damn, for some reason, 'Poly didn't give me a notice there was a second page on this thread