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Vox Public Announcement - Peace in Our Times?

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  • Vox Public Announcement - Peace in Our Times?

    Greetings, world neighbours. Vox has been left with little choice but to go public with our on-going attempts to reach some form of reconciliation with Gathering Storm.

    Here is what we proposed to GS:

    - they get all of South Estonia, below Elipolis
    - we gift Dissidentville to them
    - we do a public mea culpa - we would readily admit to our aggression and duplicity in starting this war.
    - we post a public non-agression pact with GS into the next era.
    - we will provide engineering in approx 15 turns.
    -we provide our free tech going into the next era.
    -we will not attack Inchon
    -we are allowed to safely evacuate all our troops from South Estonia
    - this to include Harry and 4 other immortals trapped on the mountains in the SE. As a show of good will - they will move down to tha plains where they will be easy targets.
    -and discuss the movement of Inchon - maybe two tiles south. They will still get the prime enhanced grassland tiles - but our cultural borders will not be overlapping.
    -we also agreed to forfeit any access to iron, as a commitment to future non-aggression

    This was rejected by GS. However - they still put a peace deal back up on the screen, and we sent back the deal unaccepted, with Dissidentville added to continue the discussion. We also ceased any attacks on GS units.

    That was the same turn they eliminated our Immortals in the south - who basically left themselves undefended as a sign of good faith. And we informed them we were doing this as well. (Eliminated is probably not the right word - execute might be better.)

    They have now landed troops in North Estonia.

    It would appear that we are past the point of any reasoning or discussion. They are willing to give us some limited time to get off of North Estonia, but they do not want us to stay. They want the entire continent. That is clear.

    So despite our public admission of blame in this affair, and having suffered a much greater loss in the war, and now being willing to give public and tangible assurances regarding their security, Gathering Storm still wants the small patch of land we call home.

    We the people of Vox, and the much Humbled One, wanted you to know.

    .... Beta.
    Last edited by Beta; June 12, 2003, 23:27.
    Cry havoc and let slip the dogs of war .... aw, forget that nonsense. Beer, please.

  • #2
    I initially posted my personal reply in here, but then I noticed that some members of my team have suggested that we hold our response to Beta's post until we have formed a concensus on this issue.
    While I think that my own post was appropriate, I have removed it temporarily out of respect to my teammates.
    I can only say that personally, it saddens me that Beta has returned to his past ways of lies and deception, and has chosen to break our trust again, this time twice (by posting blatant lies publicly and by exposing details of recent private negotiations between Vox and GS without our consent), and during such critical times when our teams struggle to find a peace formula that everyone can agree on.
    Last edited by Shiber; June 13, 2003, 03:17.
    "Close your eyes, for your eyes will only tell the truth,
    And the truth isn't what you want to see,
    Close your eyes, and let music set you free..."
    - Phantom of the Opera

    Comment


    • #3
      Well, it would certainly help clarify things and stances, if GS posted their official response here soon. We all very well know how proficient the Voxian Minister of Information & Propaganda is... This public announcement being possibly another brilliant example of his skills - honestly, after reading it, I can't help but feel... oh, well... I better wait for that GS official communiqué, so that I do not have to withdraw any support I might be showing based on... ummm... possibly skewed?... information from Beta(Hound).

      But I admit I would personally like to see this war over. And I'm quite sure my fellow Legos feel the same. Wars do very little good to building generally... and to well planned building in particular. Legoland would welcome peace, that's for sure.

      Comment


      • #4
        There certainly appears to be growing sentiments in Vox's favor the longer GS refuses to disavow the claims of Betahound.

        If his comments are untrue I do not see how it is in GS's best interests to allow them to stand.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Shiber
          by posting blatant lies publicly .....
          And those would be ?????

          That peace deal is as presented almost word for word as Jon presented it to you.

          We did move our troops to the plains after indication our intentions and why we were doing it. We did refrain from further attacks of any sort - including attacks on Inchon.

          You did send a peace deal unaccepted in the game. We did send it back adding Dissidentville, along with the peace proposal as indicated. You have rejected all our offers and indicated that the only acceptable solution is us off the continent.

          ..at times when our teams struggle to find a peace formula that everyone can agree on.
          You are struggling? Your terms to-date have been fairly draconian. And your private message which you originally posted publicly certainly gives a good indication of the GS attitude. Something about extinction and hunting down our galleys if we didn't accept your terms - which see us evacuate and turn over North Estonia to you. Hah.
          Cry havoc and let slip the dogs of war .... aw, forget that nonsense. Beer, please.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by GhengisFarb
            There certainly appears to be growing sentiments in Vox's favor the longer GS refuses to disavow the claims of Betahound.

            If his comments are untrue I do not see how it is in GS's best interests to allow them to stand.
            We're working on our response. It'll be presented soon I hope - probably by PM. I don't think we have any interest in getting drawn into another flame war in this forum by arguing about this here. That's in nobody's best interests.
            If I'm posting here then Counterglow must be down.

            Comment


            • #7
              And furthermore - lets take a look at the war.

              Vox destroyed one warrior and one pike in our invasion south. We took no cities. We destroyed no infrastructure. We took considerable losses.

              Yes - we forced you into tiggering an early GA. And yes - we forced you to convert from building to military production.

              But you got a second wonder out of it. We have offered all of South Estonia in the peace treaty, Which includes another iron supply. (You now have 3) Plus two techs. Plus a humbled and small neighbor.
              Cry havoc and let slip the dogs of war .... aw, forget that nonsense. Beer, please.

              Comment


              • #8
                VOX PLEA TO THE REST OF THE WORLD

                Given the situation in North Estonia with the recent GS landing, and the tone of messages received from GS, Vox hereby officially requests support from the nations of the world, simply to survive.

                We ask for no offensive actions against GS, but for assistance in defending North Estonia.

                ..... Beta.
                Cry havoc and let slip the dogs of war .... aw, forget that nonsense. Beer, please.

                Comment


                • #9
                  You don't even have the dignity to await our official response...
                  "Close your eyes, for your eyes will only tell the truth,
                  And the truth isn't what you want to see,
                  Close your eyes, and let music set you free..."
                  - Phantom of the Opera

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    The tone of your message to me - although 'unofficial', was fairly clear. And although it may be only one GS member's view, and unofficial at that, it is clear from GS's actions and attitudes that it is a reasonable reflection of the majority view within GS.

                    If it is not - then we will soon find out.
                    Cry havoc and let slip the dogs of war .... aw, forget that nonsense. Beer, please.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      [personal opinion]

                      Calling Beta's words "blatant lies" and then answering in a PM instead of making your position public certainly doesn't improve GS's image and shifts the propaganda war even more in Vox's favour.

                      [/personal opinion]

                      Vox's proposal seems reasonable and since we strongly support peace we are supporting this proposal. Having no words from GS makes our position more difficult, though.
                      "The only way to avoid being miserable is not to have enough leisure to wonder whether you are happy or not. "
                      --George Bernard Shaw
                      A fast word about oral contraception. I asked a girl to go to bed with me and she said "no".
                      --Woody Allen

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Tiberius
                        [personal opinion]

                        Calling Beta's words "blatant lies" and then answering in a PM instead of making your position public certainly doesn't improve GS's image and shifts the propaganda war even more in Vox's favour.

                        [/personal opinion]
                        We don't want to post an official reply in Beta's thread because we don't want to get into a flame war with Beta. However, I realize that answering by PM is problematic because it won't allow Beta to review our PoV and defend his.
                        We thought of that, and we're discussing the possibilily of inviting everyone to a chat, where we will present our PoV to representatives of all teams (we ask to be allowed to speak first, since Beta has already released several public announcements), and then Vox will have their chance to defend their PoV, and then we will both take questions from the public. Are the leaders of the nations of Bob and of Lego Land interested in attending such a gathering?

                        Vox's proposal seems reasonable and since we strongly support peace we are supporting this proposal. Having no words from GS makes our position more difficult, though.
                        I assure you that we will explain, in detail, why we view Beta's proposal as unfair and even bordering insulting, and why we feel that our own proposal is not only fair, considering Vox's situation and plans for the future, but also the only possible peace agreement that we are willing to accept.

                        I ask of the general public not to be rash to judge GS by Beta's words alone. Detailed explanations are to come.
                        "Close your eyes, for your eyes will only tell the truth,
                        And the truth isn't what you want to see,
                        Close your eyes, and let music set you free..."
                        - Phantom of the Opera

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          [yet another personal opinion]

                          GS is certainly being outmanouvered on the diplomatic/propaganda front yet again.

                          The peace deal offered by Vox is very generous, and I am unsure why GS is not accepting it ? And refuses to publically respond to the Vox claims.

                          In particular, I am interested if the Vox claim that GS killed immortals left undefended in good faith, is true !!

                          [/yet another personal opinion]


                          {edit} - Typed before Shiber got his post down
                          "No Comment"

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            [personal opinion]

                            It has not been THAT long yet.

                            I am just now reading any of this. To critisize a team for not having an OFFICIAL response to an announcement they did not know was comming within a few hours is a bit of folly, I feel. I doubt all of GS has even had a chance to see this yet. This is especially true of GS, who is much more prone to concensus in case the rest of you haven't figured that out yet. They don't have an official who can just respond and that be official like some of the other teams. This has good and bad points to it.

                            Reguarding the editting of whatever comments were made above, well, anyone who was a part of the SPDG knows I do not care for that much when it can be considered remotely official. (understatement of the century)[/personal opinion]

                            Still, an official statement is needed.
                            One who has a surplus of the unorthodox shall attain surpassing victories. - Sun Pin
                            You're wierd. - Krill

                            An UnOrthOdOx Hobby

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Well, not sure what makes this chat differ from a discussion in this thread?

                              Just that fewer people will be able to get involved... and even those fewer people will create a bigger mess. The discussion will be more difficult to follow (judging from the "megachats" I had the dubious pleasure to attend to in the past) and people will be more likely to heat up. I myself often start writing a post and then scrap it after giving it another thought. This is difficult to do in a chat.

                              Personally, I don't think the chat is a good idea. Posting here sounds like a good way to give a detailed explanation regarding the "blatant lies" of Vox Controli. It does not matter if you then get involved into a flame war here or in a chat...

                              Just my two cents...

                              Comment

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