GameSpot's most disapointing game

[Velociryx]

Cross-posted with you!

And I'm glad we agree.

I'm totally serious, too....IMO, THAT is the future of the model (or something similar to it). Charge LESS initially for the game, and have a nominal monthly fee associated.

Gives continuing cash for continued development, AND involves players actively in the post-sale dev. process.

That's win-win. That's the way to go.

It might not happen overnight, but when it starts happening, it'll happen everywhere, and the companies that resist will go broke doing it the way they're doing it now.

-=Vel=-

[notyoueither]

Originally posted by Velociryx
It might not happen overnight, but when it starts happening, it'll happen everywhere, and the companies that resist will go broke doing it the way they're doing it now.

I think you are right. I hope that Firaxis can find partners other than Infog. Unfortunately for all of us, Infog. owns the rights to Civ.

[notyoueither]

OTOH. There will always be the BestBuy, mass market buyers. If it were up to me, professional wrestling would be out of business now. It's not just up to me. Different strokes for different folks.

[Velociryx]

I wouldn't worry about that part too much....InfoGreed has demonstrated aptly that they're in the biz for the short-term fix (a common symptom of that very thing is cash flow problems....a thing that IG seems to be experiencing now). In the end, they'll either shape up (which means we can expect better products from them in the future), or go broke (in which case, their assets, including ownership of Civ, will pass to some other entity).

It'll get there.

-=Vel=-
(who has, by the way, just tipped his hand enough to reveal a small portion of his own long-term plans for Velocigames)

[WarpStorm]

Originally posted by Velociryx
Release something that's more or less complete, charge a nominal (10-12 bucks a year) fee to allow users to log into a private website (hosted on a server farm anywhere in the world), to recieve the latest *upgrades* (not patches to bring the game to full functionality, but genuine *upgrades* to performance and game play), and have a place to meet others for MP.

This is an interesting idea and one I'd gladly subcribe to. I'd even pay more if upgrades (notice I said uprades) were more continuous and more significant (especially if they listened to their customers' desires and feedback).

[notyoueither]

Originally posted by Velociryx
(who has, by the way, just tipped his hand enough to reveal a small portion of his own long-term plans for Velocigames)

w00t.

Good luck. It would be good to rescue the old girl from the... present owners.

[Velociryx]

And this particular CEO is glad to hear it!

To take that a bit further, and explore what else might lay along that road, allow me to think out loud a bit:

Might it in fact, be entirely possible to GIVE the initial product away, or charge such a rediculously low price for it that the game almost can't help but attract a significant following simply on the basis that you're not risking a lot in your initial outlay....then, if you find that you really LIKE the game, there's always the option to enroll in the "continuous development" program, which also comes with dedicated MP servers, and possibly even a massivily multi-playing arena?

This basic model has all sorts of juicy advantages....for the business, said company would have a nice even cash flow, and be particularly resistant to the quarterly sales balloon. For the users, they would be providing the *mechanism* (money) for the game's continued attention and development, and have a forum where their views and opinions on the future direction(s) of the game were not only listened to, but actively solicited! Subscribing players would, then....truly be a part of the ongoing LIFE of the game itself! That's the kind of thing that can keep a game's shelf-life going far, far longer than simply relying on fansites and the mod community, because at that point, the fan sites and the mod community are working WITH the company direct!

That's huge.

That's bigger than huge.

Now....some companies will, no doubt, attempt to ratchet up their monthly fees, charging separately for each title, and that's doable. If the game is particularly compelling, that may even be NECESSARY, simply to keep it from hogging up all the company's server resources and the like. But I predict that an outgrowth of the model will be game families....sets of games that you get continuous upgrades to for that same basic subscription fee. Again, thinking long term, it's the only way to go.

Once a game reaches maturity, you don't need a full-time, completely devoted STAFF of coders working on improvements, and so the staff will naturally turn to other projects.

Having a second, third, and possibly even fourth title all tied to that same basic subscription fee will not only add value to the company's "pay" site, but it will also draw in an ever-increasing number of players TO the site.

Again, the goal isn't to make a Q4 killing, but to get an ever-increasing number of actively involved players with a vested interest in the game.

I suspect you'll see a bit of both, actually. "Families" of product tied to the same site, and smash-hits being on dedicated server farms, and requiring a separate subscription.

We'll see....

-=Vel=-

[Velociryx]

(Side-note to NYE) - Now now....In some ways, I can't help but be GLAD that the Civ franchise is in the hands of IG. It was the conflict surrounding the release of that game (and the subsequent release of PTW), that I owe the creation of Velocigames to. Had I been a satisfied customer, then this whole groovy experiment would never have come to be!

As to who will wind up with eventual control of the franchise....that's anybody's guess at this point, but we're approaching our one year anniversary, and we ain't going away....

-=Vel=-

[Maquiladora]

I really hope you dont go that way, i hate games that ask for subscription for anything. I know they have to make money but other well made games make enough profit from good sales. If the game is good enough itll support its own future development. IMO subscription fees for games in any form just stink.

I certainly would never subscribe to a game and if people feel theyre being pushed out of the loop for not paying subscription theyll turn to the pirates eventually anyway.

Not particularly on topic, just my tuppence on the subject of subscription fees.

[Spock]

Originally posted by ACooper
God am I tired of people complaining about how the game don't work.

GS had the wrong info and wrote a very negatively biased article. Case closed.

I have yet to see (serious) lags in the online games I have played. Just be choosy about who you play with and make sure your computer is in order.

Yes, PTW has warts. Yes, you have to get patches. The Firaxis team has done a good job with providing patches and assistance.

Give it up you purvayors of negativity. Who you crappin'?

First to Vel...Much luck to you, it sounds like you have a plan and are sticking to it

to AC...I heard the other day that 22% of home based computers aren't connected to the internet(guess that means no patches)....Do they have the right to complain?? I know most of the problems have been with the MP and not with SP...but when people pay hard earned money for a product it should be complete and "mostly" bug-free.
As to being Mr. negativity...I'm not...I am very happy with PTW...I'm just giving a voice to those who have none.

[notyoueither]

The problem is with MP. If you MP on the internet, then you can get patches. No?

I really can't see the logic that patching an MP game is unacceptable. I have a hard time seeing patching or updating anything to do with computers as unacceptable. It happens all the time, and with things more critical than the functioning of a game.

The bottom line is that consumers are driven partially by price. Well, when you push the producers too far... they will figure out how to use the internet to reduce development costs, in general.

[Maquiladora]

Originally posted by notyoueither
The problem is with MP. If you MP on the internet, then you can get patches. No?

I really can't see the logic that patching an MP game is unacceptable. I have a hard time seeing patching or updating anything to do with computers as unacceptable. It happens all the time, and with things more critical than the functioning of a game.

The bottom line is that consumers are driven partially by price. Well, when you push the producers too far... they will figure out how to use the internet to reduce development costs, in general.

Ive seen posts here from people complaining about excruciating lag in LAN games out of the box. What about those people?

[ACooper]

Originally posted by Maquiladora


Ive seen posts here from people complaining about excruciating lag in LAN games out of the box. What about those people?

They should update thier computer and optimize their LAN. Simple.

[Spock]

NYE ...I see no problem with patching a MP game....IF...we had only bought a MP game. Both Civ3 and Ptw has bugs and playability issues straight out of the box...in MP as well as SP. As a consumer relations manager for Wally world...I have seen anywhere from 75 to 100 returns on games in the last year(not just IG games...the problem is more widespread) I hear the same thing over and over..."it doesn't work right". I take the time to explain about patches...where to find them etc.... some are happy with that...others demand a refund....cursing me out(like I made the game) saying how they shouldn't have to "fix it". I agree with them....if IG is not delivering what they promise out of the box, then they are short-changing the consumer...sure patches make the world go around...but not everyone has internet nor should we as consumers be trod upon by companies who say "we'll patch it later".
Once again...for the record..I am very pleased with Ptw(even if I did have to patch it)...but I ask...how many copies have already begun to collect dust...how many people will I not meet and enjoy their company in one of the MP rooms because of a company that wanted to "reduce development cost" ???

[Spock]

Originally posted by ACooper


They should update thier computer and optimize their LAN. Simple.

Hmmm...so I shoud go out and spend a fortune updating my computer just so IG doesn't have to stand by their product and make it right....yeah...good idea.