You call that an argument?

[vmxa1]

Originally posted by Maquiladora


Thats not always true. Some people respect hard work and a good quality game. For example with Champ Manager 4, theyve delayed that game on purpose because they personally want to get it right 'out of the box' and constantly take feedback for the new game. I think some people will go out and buy it and of course some idiots will download it, but far less im sure already. Mostly due to the fact the way Sports Interactive (maker of CM4) do business. Theyre just a smallish UK based company started by 2 brothers bedroom coding, and people who visit the SI forums know how much they care about getting it right.

Not all people just rip a game they want, although the same people will download a game if the publisher clearly doesnt give a **** about releasing it early, just to squeeze the consumer's "early buck", and therefore i wont give a **** either.

I do not see the reference in my post that would lead you to think I thought all were involved. Of course it is not all, I have no idea what the numbers are, but I would expect it is very high. In my last office every one was making copies of games and software tools. I mean I know of dozens on the one floor alone. I do not know if that is representive of the rest of the world or not, but it is not insignificant.

[Barchan]

Originally posted by notyoueither
The fact is that stealing software is widespread, AND accepted by far too many. That is why it happens as much as it does. To think that the 'perfect' game will result in less piracy is ludicrous. In fact, it would result in more...

I’m no programming expert or anything, but I’ll bet what *would* reduce the level of piracy is if a "certain government agency" was to covertly distribute warez versions that, when downloaded and installed, would unleash a bug that would attack the user's BIOS, thus "neutralizing" the offending machine. This might make people a bit more hesitant to use unregulated products....

[notyoueither]

Originally posted by Barchan


I’m no programming expert or anything, but I’ll bet what *would* reduce the level of piracy is if a "certain government agency" was to covertly distribute warez versions that, when downloaded and installed, would unleash a bug that would attack the user's BIOS, thus "neutralizing" the offending machine. This might make people a bit more hesitant to use unregulated products....

That would also be a crime, so I would hope that no 'government', or other agency ever does it.

Better would be a 'beacon' that would alert some 'authority' to its presense and use.

Go round up 500 of the thieves and put them at the mercy of the courts. Invite the press. That might have an effect.

Oh wait. Microsoft has instituted the beacon... only a matter of time now...

[gsmoove23]

Barchan, I think before we have government agencies intentionally planting viruses on the internet software and media industries should be forced to take a serious think about adapting to a new world. Eventually they will find a way to harness these new developments and profit from them to be sure. They have the money and the brainpower and those who don't adapt I suspect will go the way of the dinosaur.

I love the people who get on here and say "I hate to read all these posts supporting/attacking PTW!". Please, everybody knows you love a good flame war or you wouldn't be posting here.

P.S. Widespread internet access does not equal widespread internet knowledge or use. Many intelligent people I know love the idea of multiplay but still are afraid to download anything because they think it'll screw up their computers. Others get the game to play with friends but wouldn't know how to find a forum or even care to, much less search for patches or mods. Some people have modem access, only play PBEM, can't stay on the line too long cause it ties up their phone...

[Maquiladora]

Originally posted by notyoueither
All this 'release a quality product and they will buy' is just... horse feathers.

Software theft and piracy are widespread, even for finished and useful products. Even products that people use to make money with.

&^%$*& I didn't make enough money! I am right to steal the tools I use to make the money I do! &*^%*&*$ software industry theiving ^&%$##*(&^%!

What tripe!

The fact is that stealing software is widespread, AND accepted by far too many. That is why it happens as much as it does. To think that the 'perfect' game will result in less piracy is ludicrous. In fact, it would result in more...

Yes, people are people and some wont change their ways whatever the quality of the product. All the bad karma surrounding PTW MP abilities so far hasnt helped some people around here in convincing them to buy it.

If it was perfect out of the box some of those unsure would go and buy it before it even hits the P2P networks, of course im not denying people would still wait and download it but this waiting time for the patch and promises to fix MP issues is not helping.

[asleepathewheel]

Originally posted by Maquiladora
If it was perfect out of the box some of those unsure would go and buy it before it even hits the P2P networks, of course im not denying people would still wait and download it but this waiting time for the patch and promises to fix MP issues is not helping.

It hit the P2P networks before it hit the shelves. Thus I don't understand that argument-that people downloaded it only because it was a buggy release-since they were downloading it before the release.

[ThaddeusAlexander]

[QUOTE] Originally posted by Akka le Vil
Ok. Let's do it with a book. It's even much less than 50 $. Do you expect to sell a book with 15 % pages missing ?
[/q]

An apple is an apple, and a horse is a horse, and a book is a book and a computer game is a computer game. stop trying to weed around this ...

And if i got the rest of the 15% later on then sure why not?

It's a question of PRINCIPLE. I find it not acceptable that the software industry is showing such a lack of respect for its customers, and pityfully disgusting that so many of these consumers just follow as sheeps and accept it.

I see it that they want to get out a product that we've all wanted FAST because they know we want it. They worked hard to get it out as soon as they did i'm sure, because THEY'RE DOING WHAT WE WANTED! multiplayer and more civs and tweaks and features... they're just DOING WHAT WE ASKED!

So I DO NOT get this LACK OF RESPECT argument at all ...

Well, you seem to don't understand the concept of "question of principle".

I do, but this isn't life and death.

Chill out!

Cheers everyone...
~Thadalex

[ThaddeusAlexander]

EDIT double post ..

[Maquiladora]

I didnt say all people. Its true of some people, they wait for reactions to the game before they decide to pay money for it or not. And i dont think those same people would download it just because its there. Perhaps an insignificant number of people for infogrames to care about.

They (infogrames) think all people who download their software do it because they dont want to pay for a solid and fully tested product, but thats exactly why people are downloading PTW.

[Grumbold]

Some online games are starting to attack the piracy problem by requiring a registration number for online play. I bet it won't be too long before other companies start requiring authentication for patches. Then it won't be too far a step before we'll have games that are intentionally bugged or disabled on release to require that everyone gets authenticated.....

(well that's my conspiracy theory for the week )

[Maquiladora]

There could only be one instance of a WONid online at one time playing counter-strike, team fortress and any HL mod, so no one gave their reg keys away. I thought that was a pretty good idea. AFAIK it still works now, because there isnt any pattern to how the WONid (needed to join servers) is generated from the reg key you get with half-life or counter-strike commercial release.

[metalhead]

This whole argument is ridiculous. For anyone complaining that publishers' hard deadlines lead to bad releases, I will point out to you a company called The Logic Factory. They are a small, independant game company that has released 2 games in a span of 7 years. They have been promising a sequel to one of the best games ever, Ascendancy, for over 3 years now. Instead of getting a slightly rushed, buggy release a year or 2 ago, we have gotten nothing, with no anticipation of ever getting anything. I'm sure this is not the only example of such a situation.

The point of this example is that you can't have it both ways. Many people want their product quickly, and can put up with initial bugs and wait for patches. Others want the game company to take their time, fix all of the bugs, and release a finished product that requires no patching. If you don't have a big publisher pushing a release time, you tick off all the impatient people, like me, who just want a new toy to play around with, even if it isn't perfect. If you are pushed by dollar concerns, you often end up with an incomplete or non-functional game, and you tick off all of the people who expect a completely finished product.

The overall point is STOP WHINING ALREADY! So you didn't get what you wanted, who cares? Nobody gets what they want; it's a fact of life. If you aren't satisfied with a less than finished product being released, it's your own stupid fault for not researching the product before buying. It's NOT the game manufacturer's or programmers fault for releaseing the product, it's YOUR fault for buying it.

On piracy, I think software pirates are thieves who deserve to be prosecuted. However, don't believe for a second that it is widespread. If piracy were widespread, gaming companies would be losing profit, and would do something about it, up to and including enlisting the help of the government. Since that has yet to happen, at least in the gaming industry, it is safe to assume that it isn't a huge phenomenon. Please do not assume that I am condoning piracy - just making an observation about it. I think habitual software pirates are despicably selfish, lazy people who probably spend their whole lives rationalizing their actions to themselves and others to explain away their selfishness/laziness.

[yin26]

I routinely borrow (yes, really) or download a game to evaluate it. If it's as buggy and incomplete as Civ3 was and continues to be, I give back / delete the game and wait or forget the title entirely. In the case of Civ3, however, I think that by Gold Edition time, there might be a game worth $30.

And I have no qualms using Warez to evaluate a title ... given the current state of release and maybe patch.

[Barchan]

Originally posted by notyoueither That would also be a crime, so I would hope that no 'government', or other agency ever does it.

Crimes are defined by laws created by the state. So long as the state exempts itself from its laws, it's not a crime.

But, really, I was only making a bit of a tongue-in-cheek remark. A "modest proposal", if you will. Still, there's something to be said for the deterrent power of draconian punishments. There's a lot less shoplifting in countries where doing so will cost you a hand. Also, there are very, very few repeat offenders. Software piracy, at least on an individual level, is fairly widespread because there’s little risk of any adverse consequences. Perhaps if there were greater consequences for using illegal pirated software, fewer people would do so.

[ThaddeusAlexander]

Originally posted by metalhead
This whole argument is ridiculous
...........
I think habitual software pirates are despicably selfish, lazy people who probably spend their whole lives rationalizing their actions to themselves and others to explain away their selfishness/laziness.

I don't want to double post his entire post in a reply with quote, i'm sure you can scroll up and read it , but i just wanted to second EVERYTHING metalhead posted.

Well said.

Cheers
~Thadalex