What Else could be Included?

[Panag]

Originally posted by civman2000
yeah, they made apollo program a small wonder, shouldn't manhattan project be a small wonder for the exact same reason??

hi ,

okay , but this way you , as the "human" player has control over the building of the nuke's , and that is what most people want , ....!!!

have a nice day

[kring]

Originally posted by panag


hi ,

okay , but this way you , as the "human" player has control over the building of the nuke's , and that is what most people want , ....!!!

I am not sure I understand your meaning here. As it is currently, anyone building the Manhattan Project allows all civs to build nukes. It doesn't matter if you build it or an AI civ builds it. You could always capture the towns it is being built in AND never build it yourself.

I agree it would be nice if everyone had to learn the tech, but in the real world, Russia stole it from the US & UK scientists. So, it is not too unrealistic for everyone to learn it the current way.

[Grrr]

Actually I find that a small wonder would further slow down nuke production by AI civs. The ones who are behind can get away with nukes very quickly when someone else builds the manhatten project.

[Mikel]

wrylachlan

I have posted similar ideas before. They all sound good, easy to learn and implement, and beneficial to the current combat system.

Why has no one commented on them?

A post about the Jovians as a new civ in the expansion would have evoked two pages of comment.

[civman2000]

to be more realistic it would cost less and less as more people built it...or maybe it could be stolen via espionage (that would be the most realistic)

[JamesJKirk]

wrylachlan:

I generally like your ideas, and think they'd greatly benefit the game, especially 7A, although I personally think 7B, 7C and 8 wouldn't be that beneficial. or that's to say they're rules I'd prefer to play without.


New Idea to Make UN Useful

We all know that the UN needs to be better implemented, and that the only reason to build it now is so the AI doesn't do it and then win the game.

So what about using the UN in a way that it actually functioned in the real world? Hastening decolonization, that is. Now throughout the game, you and the AI doubtlessly conquered many cities, and hold cities that have foreign residents in them. Now what the UN wonder could do is force cities in all the civs, aside from the one that built the wonder, to give the cities that have over 50% of its citizens of a different nationality back to their original owners. If that civ's been defeated, then it will be brought back. The civs that are entirely brought back will technologically begin at the start of the era that it's former colonizer was at (typically modern).
This won't completely debilitate those civs that have large foreign populations, as they will by default have MPP and RoP agreements, and the new civ will be inclined toward trade with that civ, often succumbing to outrageous demands, and even selling their only supply of a trade good.
This wouldn't completely obsolete war, because of one, of the following ideas, though I'm not sure which is best:

1) This only affects the cities upon the completion of the UN wonder

or

2) Member states vote when assembled to force a country to decolonialize

or

3) this occurs at regular intervals, and there is a warning before decolonization will happen.

What do you all think of these ideas? I'm sure they need refining, but they'd add a new layer of intrigue to the modern era AND make the UN useful, IMO

[Andrew_Jay]

I think they cancelled the small wonder nature of Manhattan Project (I remember hearing that it was originally to be one) to represent the relatively quick proliferation of nuclear weapons to whoever wanted to build them. As soon as it is built anyone can have nukes if they want, which is fairly close to what we have now in reality, the original Manhattan Project did all the real work.
However, perhaps it could be a sort of reverse Great Library, once one person has the Manhattan Project Great Wonder, the ability to build nukes is given to the other civs over the course of a couple turns based on their technology.

[Panag]

hi ,


maybe they should just put more options in the editor , ...right , ..??

for al wonders , ....

have a nice day

[wrylachlan]

Originally posted by JamesJKirk

New Idea to Make UN Useful

We all know that the UN needs to be better implemented, and that the only reason to build it now is so the AI doesn't do it and then win the game.

So what about using the UN in a way that it actually functioned in the real world? Hastening decolonization, that is. Now throughout the game, you and the AI doubtlessly conquered many cities, and hold cities that have foreign residents in them. Now what the UN wonder could do is force cities in all the civs, aside from the one that built the wonder, to give the cities that have over 50% of its citizens of a different nationality back to their original owners. If that civ's been defeated, then it will be brought back. The civs that are entirely brought back will technologically begin at the start of the era that it's former colonizer was at (typically modern).
This won't completely debilitate those civs that have large foreign populations, as they will by default have MPP and RoP agreements, and the new civ will be inclined toward trade with that civ, often succumbing to outrageous demands, and even selling their only supply of a trade good.
This wouldn't completely obsolete war, because of one, of the following ideas, though I'm not sure which is best:

1) This only affects the cities upon the completion of the UN wonder

or

2) Member states vote when assembled to force a country to decolonialize

or

3) this occurs at regular intervals, and there is a warning before decolonization will happen.

What do you all think of these ideas? I'm sure they need refining, but they'd add a new layer of intrigue to the modern era AND make the UN useful, IMO

I like the basic idea of decolonization as an attribute of the UN. However if it doesn't have a counterbalancing positive attribute, the players and AI will never build it. Also the positive cannot be a better trade relationship with member nations since that won't work with MP where there is no AI to manipulate that way.

My suggestion to the counterbalance for decolonization would be that when you get into the modern era, the longer you DONT have the UN more citizens become unhappy "33% Its way too crowded 66% We want to be part of the United Nations" (Note I'm thinking of the UN as a small wonder or maybe a UN wonder with certain benefits, and then small wonders which are UN Embassies which likewise cure the unhappiness).

Also, I don't think players are going to stand for random decolonization which they cannot effect. I had a mechanism for this which I posted into a thread on late-game barbarians. Basically my idea was that for every foreign national in a city there is a percentage chance each turn that he will turn into a rebel(barbarian) which will pop-up next to the city as the most current military foot unit. If the rebel, or rebels manage to take over a city, the civ returns. The UN could drastically increase the chance of rebels popping up, but decolonization would still not be a foregone conclusion since the players could man the city with military units to rebuff the rebels.



Andrew_J

I like the idea of some lag time between the Manhattan Project and all civs getting nukes. Maybe once the Great Wonder Manhattan Project is built, every other civ has to build a Nuclear Proliferation Small Wonder to get nukes. The small wonder would cost a significantly smaller amount of shield so that most civs could build it in 5 turns or so. And with the editor you could adjust the amount of lag time by changing the amount of shields for the small wonder.

[Andrew_Jay]

That idea sounds good wrylachlan, the first civ has to do all the work but actually gets rewarded for their labours with nuclear weapons earlier than anyone else. Whether anyone else gets them is up to them and if they want to also work for them.

[Panag]

hi ,

it was tried to make "it" a big wonder , however this seems to unbalance the game , if you dont "flag" the option on a wonder "allows all civ's to build nuke's" on a wonder , no nuke's , .......

have a nice day

[Andrew_Jay]

Hey, I have an idea, how about leaving the Manhattan project as it is, and also putting in the small wonder idea that Wrylachlan had. However, the catch is, the small wonder makes uranium appear on the map for the civ that makes it. That was MP technically allows nukes, but you don't get the resources to do so unless you make the small wonder. But is the "resource x appears" attribute only for techs?

[JamesJKirk]

What about for Manhatten Project, instead of their being a lag or anything, just that the civ who builds it first gets a free nuke or two (or three?), so that way there is a real lag, since nukes are pretty expensive and would always take a few turns to build

[Andrew_Jay]

They'd have to make one or two for testing anyway

[Panag]

Originally posted by Andrew_Jay
They'd have to make one or two for testing anyway

hi ,

its done ; the results are not what was expected , however that is different for every player ,....

most did not like it , ....NEXT , .....

have a nice day