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Ethical Question submitted for iron civver judgment.
Civ A and B form an alliance to battle for continental supremacy. The alliance includes a RoP agreement and a no-attack agreement that extends for 30 turns after victory in the alliance battles. That end point turns out to be turn 195.
A random number generator is used to determine right of first attack, which falls to civ A.
Civ B determines (correctly) that civ A has modestly superior production capability and will likely have the stronger army after turn 195. Civ A is also ahead in the race to MT.
Civ B uses the RoP to cover and fortify troops on Civ A’s iron deposit. No pillage occurs.
Civ A ends the RoP when it runs its full 20-turn course.
Civ A asks Civ B to leave it’s land or declare war.
Civ B asks for clarification and then goes silent. Civ A’s clarification was that Civ B has a choice between leaving or breaking the no attack agreement. (Civ A has the save and will still get to attack first.)
So, finally, the question: Can Civ A honorably attack Civ B and free the iron deposit?
Absolutely. Even the AI would agree with Civ A on this one. Civ B has committed an act of war by setting troops within Civ A's borders w/o a ROP agreement, particularly by setting them on top of an obviously vital resource. Civ B is clearly trying to maneuver into a position of advantage by doing so.
Heck, most alliance-ending agreements should automatically include a requirement to leave each others' territories ... i'd think ...
<Reverend> IRC is just multiplayer notepad.
I like your SNOOPY POSTER! - While you Wait quote.
More specifically I'd say that it's 100% ok for Civ A to attack the iron deposit *and no more* ... it's maybe 80% ok to continue the attack from there (unless Civ B counterattacks in which case Civ A should continue of course).
<Reverend> IRC is just multiplayer notepad.
I like your SNOOPY POSTER! - While you Wait quote.
eh, but not leaving after a request is a de facto refusal, just like ignoring a trade offer is a de facto refusal of the trade (albeit with generally less severe consequences ^^)
<Reverend> IRC is just multiplayer notepad.
I like your SNOOPY POSTER! - While you Wait quote.
Civ B has clearly conducted an act of war. Civ A should have no qualms in delcaring war, and continuing such war at its leisure.
So if you meet me have some courtesy, have some sympathy and some taste
Use all your well-learned politesse, or I'll lay your soul to waste Re-Organisation of remaining C3C PBEMS
And what if, hypothetically speaking, an unit is occupying an iron source that is unclaimed and while sitting there another nation builds a city next to it, claiming the iron source as being in its territory?
don't worry about things you have no influence on...
Originally posted by McMeadows
And what if, hypothetically speaking, an unit is occupying an iron source that is unclaimed and while sitting there another nation builds a city next to it, claiming the iron source as being in its territory?
good question...
it's not an invasion, so i can't really say. probably depends on the situation. if that iron is right near the core territory of the settling civ, then the claim is doubtless (*cough* ptw *cough* ). but if it's far away, you probably can't blame anybody...
- Artificial Intelligence usually beats real stupidity
- Atheism is a nonprophet organization.
it's not an invasion, so i can't really say. probably depends on the situation. if that iron is right near the core territory of the settling civ, then the claim is doubtless (*cough* ptw *cough* ). but if it's far away, you probably can't blame anybody...
I would think there should be a reward for the unit that was asked to leave, even if it was just a mere wandering warrior taking a rest.. (*cough* ptw *cough* )
More seriously, it does have strageic significance, as the settling civ is not able to use the resource, and as a result can't upgrade its units. The very upgraded ones that would have been able to kick that unit off the mountain.
haha, I'm still enjoying that one..
don't worry about things you have no influence on...
Thanks for the help guys. The civ "breaking its word" in this instance is 99% of the time an honest broker. I think there was confusion about 1) whether the rop was still in effect and 2) what an act of war is.
Anyway, war has now started and I hope there will be no hard feelings about the unfortunate communications problems that led to the tragic conflict.
This happened in the c3c tourney. I'm not sure it merits much attention, but an account is here
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